Politics – President Bush is urging Congress to let the CIA keep using "alternative" interrogation procedures -- which include, according to published accounts, forcing prisoners to stand for 40 hours, depriving them of sleep and use of the "cold cell," in which the prisoner is left naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees and doused with cold water.
The argument put forth by those who support these techniques is: "You bleeding-hearts want to protect those who would do the worst to us. Why shouldn't interrogators have whatever tools they need?" The problem with this argument is that we are supposed to be trying to get information not revenge. It is also well-documented that torture provides bad intelligence. But winning the "war on terror" is not Bush's ultimate goal. He'd rather pander to the bloodthirst of his supposedly Christian base than to get accurate intelligence. Ironically, by using inhumane interrogation techniques any evidence we get may well get thrown out, and potential terrorists won't see justice.
By campaigning so vigorously for torture Bush shows the world that Abu Ghraib was no fluke.
When the Pope read a statement dating back hundreds of years denouncing the violence used by Muslim extremists how did much of the Muslim world react? With violence. Some even shouted "Death to America!" "Death to Israel!" (The pope is neither American or Jewish, by the way.) With that kind of irrational thinking, a nice mocha latte and a Kripy Kreme donut is really all we need to get a confession and cooperation from this kind of cold blooded enemy, don't you agree my liberal friends?
worker, particularly when the "hot" light is on...man those things are good straight out of the oven.
all kidding aside, most of the people glossing over the severity of the alternative techniques would call them torture if they were subjected to them. they'd change their tunes very quickly.
the question remains, is torture effective, or not?
Redphantom
When you use these techniques most will say anything no matter how inaccurate just to stop the torture. What is gained is nothing except the garbage used to stop the pain.
If you want real and valuable information you use more humane methods. Think of the old BadCop/GoodCop game. You want to use the BadCop only and expect good data. The only purpose in truth for the BadCop in this scenario is to allow the GoodCop to come across as a friend and thus be trusted with the real and true data.
Maybe your methods are good for retribution, but that does nothing to gain valued information it simply lowers you to the enemys standard.
I wouldn't even treat a biting dog the way you want to treat these people let alone the fact you gain nothing of value except showing your true colors.
Rich4810
You just don't get it do you.
Just because someone else stooped to the level of slime in the DNA pool does not justify others doing the same thing.
What Hitler and Saddam did is irrelevent to what we here in the USA do.
We have a history of doing what is right even if it takes a bit longer to with the battle or war.
Just because Charles Manson viciously murdered all those people your logic would make it right for all of us to do that.
Sorry but that is not what this country or its people are all about. Maybe current leadership, that lied and cheated to take control are that way, but not the good people of this country.
IanFraigun:
Yeah we shouldn't take any interrogation tips from Hitler but I just think that Jihadist don't exactly want or deserve any rights that we give them. I mean they are Fighting against our system of rights and liberty. They hate us and everything we stand for. They don't believe that all men are created equal (especially not women in their minds). They don't want fare and equal treatent, they have shown us their idea of equal treatment with their video tapes. We shouldn't follow their example and as far as I know we haven't. We are saints compared to them.
The problem with this debate is that there are those who try to make it appear that the U.S. is treating prisoners as poorly as the terrorists or other evil people would. If that were true, I would agree that we should torture for the sake of torturing (which is what Hussein did) He apparently enjoyed participating in it himself. So, please read the following links about how prisoners are treated before trying to draw some moral equivalence between the U.S. and terrorists.
http://www.religiousherald.org/921.article
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzM4MGUyNWQ5MDQ1YzIwNjA5NGU5YTQ4OTU1OGE5Mjc
In addition, the average prisoner gains between 13-20 pounds, there are 4 medical personnel to every prisoner, all prisoners over 50 get colonoscopies, over 200 prosthetic limbs operations have been performed, guards do not touch the Koran to respect their religion, guards do not speak and avoid loud spots on the floor during their 5 daily prayers.
umm have any of you retards ever seen the how they torture and execute crimminals in the middle east. They chop off their hand and other body parts. personally sticking someone in a cell and hitting them with ice warter aint too bad.
and if we get attacked with a nuke I am not against burnning vilages and skinning prisoners.
Hey thats what I pay taxes for!
Guantanimo are you serious:
nine purported cases of abuse out of 24,000 interrogations
http://washtimes.com/national/20050714-121552-8634r.htm
I'd go there for vacation!
What kind of idiot worrys about "the moral highground" when their lives are at stake? The "torture" inflicted on these muslim pigs is as bad as a sponge bath compared to what terrorists have done to innocent people. And lets not forget that the people the U.S. "tortures" are guilty of war crimes and terrorism. Muslim terrorists commit their violence on INNOCENT PEOPLE.
Also remember that what you call "the moral high ground" muslims call "weakness".
Stupid liberals!
People think we arrested these people for singing in the Mosque to loudly.
Thy're bloodthirsty terrorists and if we are going to get hit again, they are the best sources of information. WHY DOES BLASTING MUSIC COUNT AS TORTURE?!?! Does that make ANY sense whatsoever to ANYBODY?????
But who knows. Maybe BlankFrank would feel good going to a fiery death knowing his country took the high ground. Not from trying to get a conviction, but from TRYING TO PREVENT THE DISASTER IN THE FIRST PLACE!
IanFraigun
What kind of leverage does the Badcop have for someone willing to kill himself to make a point? What can the Good cop offer that is better than 72 virgins in paradise? In the state where I live, biting dogs are put to sleep, but that would be inhumane for people.
AboundInGoodness
Review the findings of the 9/11 Commission.
taquito
A tracking device wouldn't stop an enemy from giving an order (by phone - eh) to others to detonate a bomb.
samsara15
When you deal with pigs, you get dirty... that's the reality of war. By this I don't mean that you have to act like them. Using harsh/cruel/torture (or whatever you want to call it) methods is not the same as intentionally killing non-combatants, keeping hostages or the other things that terrorists are known for doing. Harsh interrogation is a reality that has been part of war before the Muslim extremist groups came into existence, so the comparison is unwarrented.
ONE WORD FOR IanFraigun: HIROSHIMA
My last comment about Hiroshima is not an endorsement for the Idea of using nuclear weapons against other nations (at this point in history). It's just a historical reference to IanFraigun's inaccurate comment: "We have a history of doing what is right even if it takes a bit longer to with the battle or war."
Because now days extremist liberals think everything is torture. Its politics, they try to play the torture card to make him look bad. They dont really care but they can use it to hurt his image. No torture is being used. The reason he does it in Secret prisons is because he's dealing with top level people. The fact they were secret is immaterial to the debate about torture.
ANYONE who calls what we are doing "torture" should go find someone who has actually been tortured and see the difference. Ask someone from Nam or Korea who was actually tortured and they'll tell you what real torture is. The left is getting way to soft.FIRST with the no dodge ball in school, then the no Recess because its not fair to children.....
The fact that it is a secret prison is material to the debate about torture. He is taking prisoners to countries that allow torture. During WWII the United States was estemed for how we treated our prisoners. Now we've sunk to our president trying to bend the rules of the Geneva convention. Disgraceful.
redphantom & lawman, etc: so you guys (and Bush, et al) think it's OK to expose our troops (not to mention the press) to the certainty of the same treatment?? Just hand our enemies (all of 'em, not just radical Islam) a written permission slip signed by the POTUS to use "alternative interrogation techniques" on our men and women; sure, nothing's too good (or bad) for the American people, right?
That'll do WONDERS for military recruitment in this country!
Get your money ready, rich folks, because the draft is coming!
COOp666-
Great point, it was always my understanding that the Geneva convention pertained only too uniformed military that represented a specific country.
I don't have time to research now, but if anyone knows for sure please advise.
For all of you who don't think we should use the tactics the president recommends I have 2 fair questions...
1. Do you believe we are at war with a determined enemy?
IF YOU ANSWERED YES TO #1.....
2. What tactics do you suggest we use to obtain our information, other than the other ones some of you already advocate taking away?
No wiretapping, no listening in, no surveillance without a liberal judge issuing a warrant and alerting CNN.
LETS HEAR YOUR PLAN. EXPLAIN TO ME HOW I AM WRONG FOR AGREEING WITH THE PRESIDENT ON THIS. NO REALLY I AM NOT TRYING TO BE A WISE GUY, I AM TRYING TO LEARN.
oreooreo
Bush ought to have the FBI conduct interrogations. They have many years of experience getting intelligence from very hostile subjects and they did it within the law. There is no reason we cannot fight terrorism and obey both US and international law. It seems absurd to even have to assert this.
The U.S. has agreed to rules in the past when fighting a well defined and conspicious enemy. The current conflict is entirely different and requires a complete re-thinking of those rules. Are you so blinded by rage and hatred for the president that you can't see what's staring you right in the face?
Blank Frank: I can see from how you write you are NOT a stupid person. But I feel you are either blinded by your hatred for the president, or are trying to put your head in the sand. We are definitely in a fight to the death. Of course we are conducting FBI investigations, but w/o clear guidelines, and with vague language, I agree with Bush, who is to decide what is torture or not. I mean, cursing at someone, and calling them names might be considered hate crimes by some liberal judges in this country. W/O a clear interpretation of the rules, I am afraid someone like you might consider "good cop bad cop approach" to be torture, cause you know it creates psychological trauma, resulting in mental anguish.
Dear twincats,
I'm not sure if you review your thoughts before you write or read what others write carefully. First of all, the people who know me wouldn't call me a "Bush supporter" - I just think that the U.S. should try to achieve their objectives as quickly and safely (for U.S. troops and civilians as possible). Actually you inadverdently support your President's position by the comments you made. If the terrorists treated captive civilians and troops the way the President proposes to treat them we wouldn't have construction workers beheaded on the internet, journalists held as hostages, soldier's corpses mutilated, Iraqi civilians murdered execution-style, etc. The truth of the matter is that they would be cold, tired, psychologically "broken"... but not dead, humiliated in public or forced to "beg for mercy" on television.
Not a member? Sign-up today!
harleyb761960
slashup67
pyuuuke
leeharris1969
articletdy
hatukabu
Arskillord
Varadinum
bigboy411
Helixbuilder
Inquisitor
JChen
donald51
DontBelieveTheHype
pointofview
springflower
coolhand
JennyThacker304
edhop
dtress1d
Woodie2
Minuteman
Dygital
EasternWisdom3
rebner
Evo Morales
foto
tricont486
RoyWagner
Star_Poet
cjamessmart
jimstaro
manalo8686
malc
curtisbeedle
Truth4U
sush1435
hiroshi1010
JOJO8944
ByronC
babayada
vfaltu
TGrass3001
BelleCurve
mozzer
madonika
Mumma B
dexlovex2
dirtyfratboy
mjs3
437)
Is he serious? Well, that is cruelty. When will Bush ends his term by the way? lol