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Distrust of voting machines is running high »
Posted by: Karina 1 year, 9 months agoAn overhaul of the nation's creaky electoral machinery, inspired by the Florida presidential recount in 2000, will get its biggest test so far in the midterm congressional elections Tuesday - and some worry the cure might be as bad as the disease.
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Comments: 303
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Dsb2k6
Nov. 3, 2006, 2:24 p.m.This is scary stuff. Voting machines are one area where technology places the common man at a disadvantage. I think we would be better off with a pencil and paper voting system. How is one to know that their vote has been counted if it is stored in some mysterious computer somewhere that noone has access too other than those with the ability to tamper with them? How am I to know my vote counted?
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b4thewind
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:25 p.m.Serioisly, "DocJ". Let's debate. And if you're thinking I have a personal vendetta against your posts, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. You are by far the least intelligent poster on Netscape. Some folks are actually funny, but you are just a RNC party hack. Is this statement what you really want to debate about?
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Eagle_Eye
Nov. 3, 2006, 7:43 p.m.Been sniffing those chemicals again DrJ.....in case you didn't know, DDT eats your brain cells, makes you sound like an idiot.
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Bopi365
Nov. 4, 2006, 1:44 p.m.Suspicous of course
James Webbs name will appear on the ballot
as ( James "Jim" We ) as if his last name had 27 B's in it and needed to be shortened.
Do I smell "contested results"
There is also the issue of no paper trail and election spoilage
Read that as "we don't trust the republican leadership"
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MickD14
Nov. 4, 2006, 6:29 a.m.There is no doubt that with a comment like, that you are a moron. Keep trusting your government buddy,just like the Germans did in the 1930's. Wake UP!
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TednGilbertAZ
Nov. 3, 2006, 5:10 p.m.oh, good Lord... here we go again. I am sure if the results do not come out to someone's liking, this will be the very first thing mentioned... and mark my words, some talking head will use the word "disenfranchised" on election day complaining about voter fraud for their candidate.
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smokensqueal
Nov. 3, 2006, 2:34 p.m.I can't belive people are getting so excited about this. Ya technology can have some major flaws BUT you have to think how easy it would be to just have one person a the voters place take an extra few paper ballots and stick them in the machine? I think paper is just as flawed as the one they are presenting. There needs a check and ballance in place for the touch screens to be accepted. I don't know about you but I wouldn't mind being able to go to a website and verify that my vote was cast and counted. If people would be more open and not worried about what people think on who they vote for then there should be a public Database where you can see and count for yourself who got what vote anyway. Also we need to do retnial scans for voters so there isn't so much voter fraud. On a side note you don't elect the President anyway. It's your representative that does. And it's just a matter of time before a representative turns on his/her people and votes different than what they do.
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nakedtruth
Nov. 3, 2006, 5:28 p.m.That's simply not the same. A ballot stuffer has an easier time getting caught. (There are other people there watching afterall). Plus one person can only stuff ballots at one precinct. Contrast that with voting software designed to skim votes from many different precints. The code only has to be written once. (Think of a computer virus stealing creditcard numbers versus a pick pocket and you may understand why this is so serious).
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looter
Nov. 3, 2006, 2:38 p.m.To be honest with you all.... I don't want to see a big eyed fat ass guy raising a ballot paper, with more than one whole and staring at it with his eye balls almost popping out of its socket. Now if we use computers Chavez will decide who should rule America as the voting software is owned by a Venzuelan company. Lou Dobbs was screaming about this issue for nearly two years. Looks like this election is going to be a very interesting one.
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questionseverything
Nov. 3, 2006, 2:51 p.m.if we r going to use electronic machines...every computer voting machine should produce 2 paper receipts,1 for the voter,1 for the ballot box...
,deposited in front of an election judge just as its been done for 200 plus years(which is counted with both partys present or all 3 as the case maybe) if the results dont match...the paper ballot should be the one that counts...we wouldnt go the bank and not expect a receipt would we?
this just seems to be common sense to me
as far as smokes comment goes..the vote must be kept secret
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questionseverything
Nov. 3, 2006, 2:52 p.m.srry for the typos point being 1 person 1 vote with a paper trail a 12 yr old could count
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JPMBZ
Nov. 3, 2006, 2:55 p.m.Findings The main findings of our (Princeton University) study are:
Malicious software running on a single voting machine can steal votes with little if any risk of detection. The malicious software can modify all of the records, audit logs, and counters kept by the voting machine, so that even careful forensic examination of these records will find nothing amiss. We have constructed demonstration software that carries out this vote-stealing attack.
Anyone who has physical access to a voting machine, or to a memory card that will later be inserted into a machine, can install said malicious software using a simple method that takes as little as one minute. In practice, poll workers and others often have unsupervised access to the machines.
http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/
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Eagle_Eye
Nov. 3, 2006, 7:45 p.m.Does any one remember the article a couple of months ago about Florida Republican Tom Feeny hiring and paying the computer programmer to write the vote stealing program?
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JPMBZ
Nov. 3, 2006, 2:55 p.m.Cont:
AccuVote-TS machines are susceptible to voting-machine viruses - computer viruses that can spread malicious software automatically and invisibly from machine to machine during normal pre- and post-election activity. We have constructed a demonstration virus that spreads in this way, installing our demonstration vote-stealing program on every machine it infects.
While some of these problems can be eliminated by improving Diebold's software, others cannot be remedied without replacing the machines' hardware. Changes to election procedures would also be required to ensure security.
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JPMBZ
Nov. 3, 2006, 2:58 p.m.Voting runs into untimely glitch: Clocks on machines flip back 1 hour when touch-screens turn off
Nov 02, 2006 (The Orlando Sentinel - McClatchy-Tribune Business News via COMTEX) -- A new glitch with a version of the already-controversial touch-screen voting machines has turned a simple computer function into a major headache for election officials in at least five Florida counties days before Tuesday's general election.
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JPMBZ
Nov. 3, 2006, 3 p.m.HOW TO STEAL AN ELECTION BY HACKING THE VOTE. If you think this is BS, then read this.
http://arstechnica.com/etc/How_to_steal_an_election-ArsTechnica.pdf
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miklkit
Nov. 3, 2006, 4:23 p.m.And there is more!
http://nightweed.com/angrygirl.html
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen
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curley-zark
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:06 p.m.arrrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wish people would get up, go get every one of these electronic voting machines, dress up like our founding fathers, and dump them in Boston harbor.
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LOCKNLOAD
Nov. 3, 2006, 5:20 p.m.Those of us exploited water rate/payers to Mass/Water... [MWRA] have been duned over Billions of dollars since 1986 for the clean/up of the Boston Harbor....our waters are now pristine, even dolphins have been seen so, NO, to more dumping of waste in our harbor....lol
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CommonSense50
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:09 p.m.Problems with voting machines are not only limited to this country. They endemic throughout the world. There was another artcile on this theme, I belive it was a country in the Netherlands that is going back to paper and pencil due to "technical" issues. Havin some programming background, it is quite easy to hack and destroy these systems and to alter their results.
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JPMBZ
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:18 p.m.HACKING DEMOCRACY an HBO Documentary....This is scary stuff. I saw this last night. EVERYBODY should see this.
Payoffs to the Diebold company (who makes voting machines) found on their books from the GOP. Hummmmmmmm????
Electronic voting machines count about 87% of the votes cast in America today. But are they reliable? Are they safe from tampering? From a current congressional hearing to persistent media reports that suggest misuse of data and even outright fraud, concerns over the integrity of electronic voting are growing by the day. And if the voting process is not secure, neither is America's democracy. The timely, cautionary documentary HACKING DEMOCRACY exposes gaping holes in the security of America's electronic voting system.
In the 2000 presidential election, an electronic voting machine recorded minus 16,022 votes for Al Gore in Volusia County, Fla. (Cont.)
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/hackingdemocracy/synopsis.html
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curley-zark
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:17 p.m.I demand a re-VOTE and re-count for every vote cast on electronic machines!!!
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JPMBZ
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:21 p.m.New York Times: "Rigged voting in Louisiana? Say it ain't so. But it's not shocked-shocked you feel watching this; it's genuine shock. As the drama proceeds, adducing more evidence for the unreliability of the voting machines than can possibly be explored here, you might also feel flattened. Computers count around 80 percent of votes in America. The marketing director for Diebold, Mark Radke, who defends both the company and its chief executive ... talks in maddening doublespeak and wears the arched-eyebrow expression of a silent-movie fiend. His Nixon-era nondenial denials turn the stomach.
Boston Herald -- Grade: A -- "The thought of watching a documentary on possible voting fraud may sound as appealing as, say, a PBS special on mushroom farming (say, is it pledge week yet?), but "Hacking Democracy" (tonight at 9) unravels like a "24" episode...
TV Guide: Shocking HBO Film Rocks the Voting Process -- shocking revelati... More
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dan_
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:25 p.m.machines are only necessary because people are to stupid to run a pencil or a lever. if there is a conspiracy, its made up of stupid people, and won't be sucsessful for a lack of intelligence.
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sideways
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:37 p.m.It was said, "The votes have been counted, now it's time for the votes to count"... Mr. Chimp~
"You know they stole the election in Florida"... Castro~
Ominious words
Florida (chad), Ohio, Louisiana... a pattern forms
Has someone run this all by Oliver Stone? He loves a good conspiracy you know.
Make cheaters work harder by using good ol paper ballots.
Peace~
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Foxman
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:34 p.m.While hand-counting (even through the scanning machines) is slow and tedious. Paper ballots can be forged and replaced, entire boxes lost or destroyed if the district they represent is notably against a particular issue or candidate. It doesn't take long to prepare the dummy ballots and slip them in.
That said, it takes seconds to install a computer virus, if not already loaded with pre-tampered software and either fiddle with the numbers (add 1/4 vote to the opposition for every vote to a particular candidate) or just wipe the real results.
Paper trail, a physical means to double-check, is paramount. Without it, just go in mobs to the polls and yell your votes all at the same time; it's more likely to get an honest counting. With the paper ballots you have a chance to spot mechanical repetitions, or those caused by boredom. (A single person marking 10,000 ballots leaves handwriting clues.)
As for 'grabbing a handful' of ballots, I've never seen it possible.
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curley-zark
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:37 p.m.How did "conspiracy" get such a negative conotation? Does anyone really believe that human beings don't conspire each and every day? Of course, no Virginia sheriff would ever resell the drugs his department confiscated!
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Taganan
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:49 p.m.Since both parties have persons who are willing to commit vote fraud, we must then either keep a closer eye on things or insist on a better system. Paper ballots are subject to ballot stuffing. Computers are subject to hacking. Punch cards work as long as the punches are sharp and the cuts are clean, but the machines wear out and people don't always operate them properly. Another problem is the secret ballot. How can you check your vote later unless you can identify your ballot?
There must be a mechanically produced record, viewable by the voter at the time of voting, that no one can touch except for supervised counting. At the same time an electronic record can be made in a computer which is never on-line and has no external inputs other than the voting counter. That electronic record would be physically taken to a playback machine to be sent to a central tally. If challenged both records could be recounted.
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cleare
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:57 p.m.Does anyone know if the scanners are more secure. in my precinct I have a choice. should i hand mark & scan or use the nefarious diebold machine?
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miklkit
Nov. 3, 2006, 4:38 p.m.The last time I voted, I walked into the polling place, told them my address, they looked me up in a big book, signed my name, showed them my drivers license, and received a big paper ballot and a pencil. I went into a booth and filled in the circles I wanted. I walked out and over to a big black box, tore my receipt off of my ballot, and put the ballot into the machine where it was read and then dropped into black box. I'm pretty sure my vote counted.
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Locky12
Nov. 3, 2006, 3:58 p.m.I'm a true conservative/libertarian and I don't like the Diebold machine.
What is so wrong with the voting booth where you walk into it, you pull the big lever all the way to the left, you then cast your vote(s) by pulling the little levers for your candidates and then pulling the big lever all the way to the right. Your vote is tallied by counter behind the booth and counted when the polls closed, and verified at the local police precinct.
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Virginia
Nov. 3, 2006, 5:54 p.m.Those all have to be programmed too. Some have sworn that they have been crosswired especially in our area for bond issues like school bonds. Some in our area in the past swear no one would want those in the numbers that show up. We don't have them any more but instead a box with places to touch and no paper.
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curley-zark
Nov. 3, 2006, 4:01 p.m.I'm a libertarian, not a leftist. Can you say "lib-er-tar-i-an"? You know like one of the right's supposed hero's, Barry Goldwater.
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questionseverything
Nov. 3, 2006, 4:10 p.m.every American should want a legitimate counting of votes...regaurdless of their political leanings
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Squedge
Nov. 3, 2006, 4:19 p.m.The story will not be over if the Dems win. If the Dems win creating a fair, tracable voting procedure with checks and balances had better be one of the first things they push for. I know you think that the fears of e-voting are unfounded, but this is not about people fearing technology. It is about people not trusting those who program and create the technology.
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Karina
Karina Longworth blogs about film at Spout.com. She co-founded the film blog Cinematical in March 2005, whilst simultaneously completing an MA in Cinema Studies ...
