'Sheer Anger' over Torture Provokes Suit Against Rumsfeld »

Posted by: Spadecaller 1 year, 8 months ago

9.7

Scale of 1 to 10

Read: 26

Propped: 116

Comments: 216

Archived

Navy veteran from Chicago sues Rumsfeld. A U.S. Navy veteran from Chicago sued former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in federal court Monday, accusing U.S. forces of detaining and torturing him for 97 days at a maximum security military prison in Baghdad.

Read Full Story at suntimes.com »

Story Tags What are Tags?

This Story is Archived and Commenting is Closed

Comments: 228

Avg rating: (+9/-0 9)
Searchbeam
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:06 a.m.
We need more of these to make this meanie face the wrath of people he tried to destroy!
The biggest slap on our national face was the FAREWELL PARADE FOR THIS JERK!
The pomp and parade with his partners in crime in the cheer-leading squad was an insult to the 2940 brave soldiers who lost their lives because of this stupid and arrogant SOB1
I would like to know the cost of his last trip to Iraq and this filthy show! Then let us find a way to bill it to Shotgun Dick and his cronies at Haliburton, because these are the guys that benefited from this abuse and waste of taxpayers' money, and the loss of 2940 innocent soldiers!
This guy should have been driven out of town on a mule, face backwards!
Let us resolve to make sure this does not happen again by:
IMPEACHMENT NOW, VIGILANCE FOREVER!
Peace and Blessing to the rest of us!

92 Replies
- Avg rating: (+9/-0 9)
  Illuminate
  Dec. 19, 2006, 3:04 p.m.
  SO this guy files a suit and hes proven correct BEFORE evidence is perused BUT ching-ching IS Guilty because you and this Navy guys says so.....??
  All you Bush and Admin haters need to look at the Constitution.....and Criminal LAW....
  Innocent till PROVEN Guilty
  If what happened to the man IS true then YES.... until then JURIES not out... You are a disgrace to the Contitution, Justice and the American way!!!!!!
  
  64 Replies
  - Avg rating: (+9/-0 9)
    Illuminate
    Dec. 19, 2006, 4:36 p.m.
    Due process and a speedy trial or whatever (Impeachment if need be)
    
    8 Replies
    - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
      TemplarScribe
      Dec. 19, 2006, 9:43 p.m.
      I find it fascinating (to quote Mr. Spock) that the same hardliners who spouted such vehemence against Clinton when he was in office, are now the same ones to rally so strongly to this adminsitration's defence. The same who sullied and slandered the presidency eight years ago, now cast "shame" tags at those who dare claim the Knucklehead In Chief and his evil cabal are the true traitors.
      A never-ending war on terror? Over 100,000 civillians killed? The main perpetrator (Osama) allowed to escape, while we pulled our best troops out to fight a contained enemy? An adminstration filled with cronies, who rewrite policy statements from EPA, State and the Pentagon? Efforts to sidetrack investigations about 911? And then testifying, NOT under oath, and behind closed doors?
      We don't need a courtroom to judge these people. Their actions speak quite loud enough. I just hope when they ARE found guilty, you'll remember your righteous indignation from eight years ago.
      
      7 Replies
      - Avg rating: (+7/-1 6)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 10:38 p.m.
        Where have I spouted hardline agianst Clinton? He was a not too bright and a terrible Pres- do you have proof I wanted him impeached? NO? GO get some facts.
        Equal trail and justice. No NeoCon conspiracy- Go buy Steve Jackson Games Illuminati- if you want to do CT's
        Take you hang 'em with no jury somewhere else
        Your the only hardliner here. I've advocated a fair and speedy trial and have agreed with some of Bushes mistakes and stupidity. A lot of you spout tar featherisms and mob mentality. GO Get some facts, evidence, judge and jury
        You dont know me or I you have I called you a Dumbocrat or Liberal KNucklehead. NO? Go get some facts.
        Yes we need one-- No evidence, no jury, no judge-- makes you what you despise so much.
        
        2 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 10:40 p.m.
        Things turn out best for people that make the best of the way things turn out.
        John Wooden
        
        Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
        TemplarScribe
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:12 p.m.
        Illy, I didn't claim you spouted hardlines against Clinton. I'm commenting on the majority of the 34% that still support Bush and Cheney. Most of them still think Clinton was a terrible pres for having an affair in office, for which he's not the first. Maybe they think he's a bad pres because he got us into a war in Bosnia? No wait, that was an unqualified success. Can't be that.
        Maybe they hate him for lying in office? Nah, they still support an administration who, three years down the line, STILL can't decide what the reason was for us getting into Iraq.
        I know -- it's because they're partisan! They follow a pres who claimed he'd reach across the aisle, yet six years later, has the most partisan administration in recent memory. Clinton actually had a Republican Sec. of Defense.
        Me, a hardliner? FYI, I'm a Republican! One of the reasons Bush is the worst pres ever: not a single spending veto in six years. That says it all.
        A little less Nyquil and a little more sleep, perhaps?
      - Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 11:16 p.m.
        I find it fascinating that those who speak out about Bush et al's denying of rights wish to do the same to them.
        How illogical??
        
        3 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+3/-0 3)
        lfergie812
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:11 a.m.
        Not denying Bush's rights. He has a right to a trial just the same as any other criminal. This isn't about Bush anyway, it's about Rummy unless you're saying that Bush is equally guilty in this case.
        
        2 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Beau7890
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:14 a.m.
        I'd say that. He's Commander-in-chief.
        
        Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:23 a.m.
        Bush et al but I've been typing to much. Trying to kill (for lack of better term) the mob mentality.
        Home sick.... no work today... gotta dock myself, no pay...
  - Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)
    LordyLordy
    Dec. 20, 2006, 12:03 a.m.
    They hate having me sit on a jury. Regardless of what the person is accused of, I listen to the evidence, and I also listen to intent. Fancy expensive lawyers, money, lack of it, right-wingers and left-wingers never buy my vote. They don't here either. The Navy really isn't in this war, only the Army and the Marines, with a little help from the flyboys, some of them based on aircraft carriers. These aren't swabbies or Seabees, but Naval Aviators, a breed in themselves.
  - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
    elzorro2162
    Dec. 20, 2006, 8:31 a.m.
    For once I can agree with BJ. Lyndie, Gen. K & the prison guards were pawns. Who we should really go after are those supervising and giving the orders, THEY should go to prison...they are the ones doing the CYA you're talking about. Let us take Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush to trial. Let justice rule over the land!
  - Avg rating: (+9/-0 9)
    m-simon
    Dec. 20, 2006, 12:51 a.m.
    Karpinski was the opfficer in charge.
    How did she let this happen? Why isn't she being prosecuted?
    She was the highest level at the prison.
  - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
    jeffery1
    Dec. 19, 2006, 4:40 p.m.
    Calm down dude. That we know BushCo, including Rummy, are guilty is NOT the same as the real system! We don't have to find them guilty through a trial, all we need is to pay attention to what's going on and make up our respective mind. The real system, on the other hand, requires that evidence be gathered and then a trial be held while assuming innocence.
    Sure, the jury's out in the real system but not with those of us who know what these right-wing freaks have been up to. But you must understand that if any jury pays attention during any trial, BushCo cabal members will be found guilty.
    
    13 Replies
    - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
      Illuminate
      Dec. 19, 2006, 4:57 p.m.
      When that day comes... I'll shut up.
      UNtil then YES they do need to be found guilty thru a trial until then its Opinion and nothing more. And Opinion means squat!!!
      
      12 Replies
      - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        jeffery1
        Dec. 19, 2006, 5 p.m.
        Right. So, calm down because this site is only opinion.
      - Avg rating: (+8/-0 8)
        ETproductions
        Dec. 19, 2006, 6 p.m.
        Illuminate, you are right in saying that everyone deserves their day in court before being held legally accountable. But we as voters do NOT have to wait till a court of law convicts someone before deciding for ourselves whether we will support or reject their position. God forbid such should ever be the requirement.
        
        7 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+12/-0 12)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 6:23 p.m.
        True-- Its the ride on a mule-- tar and featherish stuff I'm mainly talking about. They dont deserve a trial stuff that bugs me.
        Everyone has aright to dissent but does the Dumbya, Ching- Ching, BushNazi, etc work. It just turns me off to not even read their opinion
        
        6 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+2/-1 1)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 11:02 p.m.
        The mod mentality throw away the key and tkae away their rights.
        All the poeple that are spewing at me because they think supposed US Citizen terrorist and terrorists should have right but Bush et al shouldnt are just like Bush then.
        That make them hypocrites and as bad as Bush et al.
        
        Avg rating: (+4/-3 1)
        ETproductions
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:14 a.m.
        I hate that too. But I equally despise the Defeatocrats, Vote Dems and vote for tax increases, Cut and Run, Turn America over to the Terrorist labeling that the current GOP has made its stock in trade.
        I remember a time, after McCarthy and before Newt, when Americans from both the liberal and conservative camps could sit down together and work out what's best for the country. I'd truly like to see a return to that, because back then I was a Republican and as a small business owner, I still support the fiscal conservatism the GOP stood for back then.
        
        4 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+6/-0 6)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:21 a.m.
        Oh definately... People can defend the Dems (till the BLUE in the face) but I'm scared ******less my business is dead once they start passing legislation and repealing/rasing taxes.
        Both sides of the aisle are so far removed from their constituants and credos.
        They can also defend Pelosi et al (but I've seen what the Social Causus (or whatever the actual name is) stands for, the new Intel Senator that doesnt know S h i t from Shiite, the American people want change...... We'll its a coming......
        
        3 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+3/-0 3)
        ETproductions
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:36 a.m.
        Your Dear Decider's tax cuts for the ultra rich have run the deficit THIS YEAR to 3.5 Trillion Dollars when you subtract out Social Security taxes. http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/12/14/true-
        GWB has bankrupted America. You, your children, and your grand children are now in hoc to the Chinese.
        GWB lied to you in the 2000 election campaign when he said he would end partisan bickering in Washington. He did not. He didn't even try. He did the exact opposite.
        He lied when he said Al Gore's budget estimates were "Fuzzy math." They weren't. They were accurate.
        He lied when he said there were WMDs in Iraq. The UN Weapons Inspectors were already there. Using CIA intelligence, they found NOTHING. He knew that. He lied.
        Unless you are in the top 1% of taxpayers, your tax cuts were MORE than offset by reductions elsewhere. GWB lied. YOU lost. We all lost.
        
        2 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 2:17 a.m.
        Hehe It was OK math... my Dad swears Gores math was ****** and he liked him. Dad a retired math professor and HS math teacher (couldnt stay away)
        
        Avg rating: (+10/-0 10)
        TemplarScribe
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:31 p.m.
        ETP: I agree 100% with your estimate. Bush knowingly lied to the people of America during the 2000 campaign. The one I espeically liked was the "no nation building" one. Heh heh! That was a good 'un!
        What bothers me is that too many Americans beieve the smoke and mirrors of his tax cuts. I give Clinton credit when he said during a televised interview that he liked them because they benefited him, but he knew they were absolutely wrong for America.
        We are indeed in hock to China for generations to come. Unless India winds up undercutting the Chinese. How often have I heard, "Hello, my name is Mahatma. May I help you with your ATT account?"
      - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        DoubleDragon
        Dec. 19, 2006, 10:18 p.m.
        "When that day comes... I'll shut up."
        Wow, I admire your courage. You mean when you're found wrong you'll only "shut up" and not "speak up" about such a violation of the constitution, the country, a veteran and a citizen? Weren't you just spewing about respecting that very document? You're perfect. A perfect example of those supporting the Commander in Idiot. Disgrace to democracy. Lacking courage of an 8yr old. Talk independent of thought. Pure unbelievable.
        
        2 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+5/-1 4)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 10:51 p.m.
        I'm taking about fair trials for them. Once they're found guilty I'll stop defending their right to due process. It will have been served. Either way.
        Dont quite understand you immature points of me being 8yrs old. I'm 9
        I'd defend the Office of the President (even if a worthless human like Clinton and a knucklehead like Bush)and the Constitution till the day I die. Our opinions may differ and thats a right I will never take away from anyone.
        Bush and his cronies deserve fair and equal justice even when proven they've taken another US Citizens rights away.
        As for this story an allegation or any (ie rape, kidnapping, torture, war crimes) IS just that an ALLEGATION (not true and not a fact) until presented and voted on by a jury.
        
        Avg rating: (+9/-0 9)
        TemplarScribe
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:39 p.m.
        **You're perfect. A perfect example of those supporting the Commander in Idiot.**
        I prefer the term Knucklehead in Chief.
        **Talk independent of thought.**
        Oh, not at all. Here's an example:
        Teleprompter says: "And we must stay the course to keep terrorists over there, and off our shores."
        Thinking brain says: "Shores. Pauly Shore. I wonder if he'll be doing a sequal to 'Pauly Shore Is Dead'?"
        See? There's thinking going on. It's just a little, um, detached.
        Hmmm... Maybe you're right.
  - Avg rating: (+3/-0 3)
    twincats
    Dec. 19, 2006, 4:49 p.m.
    So, "Innocent till PROVEN Guilty" works for Rummy, but not an ordinary US citizen caught in the clutches of the Administration's suspension of habeus corpus for "terrorists" ?????
    WTF? Where were Donald Vance's rights? "Innocent till PROVEN Guilty" my a**
    
    16 Replies
    - Avg rating: (+10/-0 10)
      Illuminate
      Dec. 19, 2006, 4:55 p.m.
      Have I said Bush was right?
      Although the jury is still out and in the Supremes court on Terrorists rights?
      Just because Bush is wrong, we should do the same??
      LAW and Justice arent arbitrary - you're be JUST like Bush then.
      
      15 Replies
      - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        RedstateLib
        Dec. 19, 2006, 9:36 p.m.
        The guy was not a terrorist, so why do say "terrorist rights". Keep up the talking points he was a U.S. Citizen a former member of the military he had rights not "terrorist rights" that are still up in the air.
        
        14 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 10:13 p.m.
        I wasnt refering to him in general I read the article I know he's a US citizen and Soctus has said the MCA DOESNT take away a US Citizens rights.
        I'm ragging on the ones that say Bush et al should have their rights taken away (ie Impeachment, Jail without a trial etc)
        
        7 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+5/-0 5)
        RedstateLib
        Dec. 19, 2006, 11:43 p.m.
        I'll let you have that one but you did use the term terrorist rights. They are not terroist till they have been proven to be terrorist until then they are suspected terrorist. You know what most of us don't want terrorist to go free we just want a system of oversight to make sure we get the right guys. See I have to ask myself for every innocent guy that we detain how many guilty ones are getting away. Funny thing about me I want to get the actual guys who want to get us not just round up a bunch of people and hope we got some of the bad guys.
        
        6 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 11:57 p.m.
        No I'm just sick of the ALLEGATIONS being construed as fact. NO trial jury etc for Bush et al. That would make us as bad as the current Admin
        I'm a diehard Repub and want BUsh et al to pay for their crimes but only thru due process and terrorists et al without infringing on US Citizens rights (my juries not out on non US Citizens terrorists rights- currently none under US law IMHO)
        
        5 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)
        RedstateLib
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:08 a.m.
        I'll agree with most of that. But : "(my juries not out on non US Citizens terrorists rights- currently none under US law IMHO)" Maybe not by law but if we punish innocent people we have become the immoral nation that they claim us to be. I love this country, I don't want us to be like them, I want us to be the ones who set the standard not the one who lowers our standards to the lowest commen denominator. Because we are the United States of America and we are better than that. Thats just how much I love this country. I would let them kill me before I would let them lower our standards. Damn Libra that I am.
        
        4 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:14 a.m.
        Agreed but they should (be treated decent) and thru a Miltary tribunal with due process (yes it is possible in the Military) NOT the US Courts
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        RedstateLib
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:14 a.m.
        Besides I am afraid God would let me in just so my Mother could get ahold of me!
        
        2 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:26 a.m.
        Hehehe
        (not that she's passed on- just the joke)
        at least she's in a better place than the rest of us,
        
        1 Reply
        
        Avg rating: (+10/-0 10)
        RedstateLib
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:32 a.m.
        Got that right!
        
        Avg rating: (+1/-1 0)
        LordyLordy
        Dec. 20, 2006, midnight
        Was he fighting with the enemy? Yes, then he is a terrorist. Yes, then he is a traitor to this country at the very least. When you wear the uniform of your country and fight with your enemy, I believe in the old army you were a spy and were shot and not jailed at all?
        
        5 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:12 a.m.
        Pretty much a bullet in the head or a big T or C brand
        
        Avg rating: (+4/-0 4)
        RedstateLib
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:16 a.m.
        He wasn't fighting with the enemy he was a U.S. contractor who was kidnapped. Talk about guilty till proven innocent.
        
        1 Reply
        
        Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:27 a.m.
        Oh I was just replying to the question of what happened in the old day not agreeing this guy should be.
        I dont, due process, please
        
        Avg rating: (+9/-0 9)
        ETproductions
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:32 a.m.
        The guy was an FBI informant, for goodness sakes. He was not a terrorist. He was, in point of fact, one of the bravest of Americans. He told the military interrogators that he was working for the FBI. He told the embassy this. They called the FBI, spoke to his contact there, and VERIFIED all this. And yet they held him for over 3 months and tortured him anyway.
        If THIS is how you think American citizens (and true, brave patriots at that) should be treated, then we have no basis for discussion, because what I call midday, you obviously see as the darkest hour of the night. I can only hope you didn't bother to read the article and never listen to any news outside of Faux and Rush.
        
        1 Reply
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        TemplarScribe
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:43 p.m.
        **...any news outside of Faux...**
        Heh heh heh! Good one! Mind if I borrow that?
        BTW: Cudos for pointing out that he worked for the FBI. I think it's plain that most of the commentators here don't always read the article. LordyLordy sure didn't.
  - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
    LordyLordy
    Dec. 19, 2006, 11:13 p.m.
    This is precisely why we are supposed to have a trial by jury and evidence presented rather than a hangman's party. If you believe two people, by Golly you would have a fair trial and hang everybody that disagreed with them.
    It was, after all Democrats and Republicans, who voted for these wars, Intel or no intel, they're still calling FDR WWII, his war because his intel wasn't perfect. Of course tell that to the survivors and the people inside the USS Arizona... Will they be claiming 20 years from now that 9/11 didn't happen?
    They hate having me sit on a jury. Regardless of what the person is accused of, I listen to the evidence, and I also listen to intent. Money, right wingers and left wingers never buy my vote. They don't here either. The Navy really isn't in this war, only the Army and the Marines, with a little help from the fly boys.
    
    1 Reply
    - Avg rating: (+7/-0 7)
      TemplarScribe
      Dec. 20, 2006, 1:49 p.m.
      **They're still calling FDR WWII, his war because his intel wasn't perfect.**
      Ummm, no. I've never heard WWII called "FDR's War," despite his intel. It began long before, with Hitler's invasion of Poland, France and the Low Countries, and Japan's invasion of China. It was a war we needed to fight, in order to keep the rest of the world from going completely fascist.
      In opposition to THIS war in Iraq. Saddam posed little or no threat. The intel was there to prove it, but Cheney et al cherry picked the evidence to try and prove his non-existent nuclear program could strike us tomorrow. LL, read Powell's book if you don't believe me.
      There's a HUGE difference between having to fight a war to save the world (WWII), and "chosing" to fight a war to secure the oil fields, and to pour more funds into the military-industrial complex.
  - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
    Illuminate
    Dec. 19, 2006, 11:15 p.m.
    Wow a ******load of Bush wannabes in here. Justice without due process. Wehate Bsuh but wanna be just like him Wow!!!!
    All Allegations are fact? Not Allegations? You do know what Allegation means? Dont you? Evidently not.
    I dont want you all near me if anyone I know ever does something criminal, you'll shoot them and ask questions later.
  - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
    torrent29
    Dec. 19, 2006, 11:47 p.m.
    Now that is a funny thing coming from a Bush Support. Innocent until proven guilty. Huh, lets ask some of those people down in Gitmo how they feel about that.
    Or lets ask some of the Republican Party, maybe Newt Gingrich? He decided thats its more important to prove you are not a terrorist then it is to uphold such constitutional ideas such as innocent until proven guilty.
    But thats republicans for you, as long as it works for their culture of fear, then its a-ok but if you challenge them, then its a different story.
    
    1 Reply
    - Avg rating: (+11/-1 10)
      Illuminate
      Dec. 20, 2006, 12:11 a.m.
      Twist the truth and others words to fit your screwed logic. Yes-- US Citizens deserve rights (ALLEGED Terrorist or not) I have never argued against that-
      its still in the courts on non US citizens, so as for GITMO non US Citizen = No US rights IMHO, Soctus has ruled they must be treated decently and the other Acts are still being reviewed/ ruled on.
      Those who think Bush get none (rights) are just like Bush.
      Please Newt (the rightwingnut) is about as relevant to the GOP as Reagan's casket is.
      Sorry but someone shooting at US Troops in Afganistan is what? Defending his desert cave? Defending his stash of Opium? His harem from US infidels?
  - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
    not2needy
    Dec. 20, 2006, 12:51 a.m.
    Illuminate, i would think as a retired Military, as you stated on another thread i was reading, that you would support your commrads rather than attack them. In fact you said on the other thread (which was about Iraq becoming another Vietnam) that you hated to see the troops being attacked, now here you are saying they are lying on Rummy.
    Why would this man do this if he was not being honest? What does he stand to gain if he is lying except to be exonerated from his country?
    You are a two faced traitor against your fellow Military in favor of the czar's the Bush clan have become.
    
    14 Replies
    - Avg rating: (+8/-0 8)
      Illuminate
      Dec. 20, 2006, 12:55 a.m.
      No they are ALLEGATIONS- I never said he was lying, I asked what if he was I have every right to ask. Just not accuse.
      Its might right as a citizen to ask and question both sides of the story.
      PLease bont give me that 2 faced traitor ******. If our Troops were accused I could ask and question the validity of both sides accusations (that is NOT not supporting our troops)
      I this world of everything in print and internet and on TV being taken as truth when its either an Opinion, Allegation or Agenda- I have every right to question the validity of both sides- then it wouldnt be equal and fair- if I only aske the easy and non offending questions)
      
      13 Replies
      - Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
        not2needy
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:53 a.m.
        You can't have it both ways, talking out of both sides of your mouth now aren't you?
        Either you support the troops or you support the destruction of them, which is what Bush, Rummy and Cheney are doing.
        Appears to me you support their destruction.
        
        12 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+14/-0 14)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:01 a.m.
        Why not, that what due process is and justice
        Need to question and validate both sides to find the truth... hard questions are proven by asking hard questions.
        Which is why there's a procecution and defense for all court cases.
        Not just prosecutors or just defense lawyers.
        I'm just supposed to believe this guy ecause he's filed a suit?
        I'm supposed to beieve Cheney et al because they said it didnt happen?
        That what a evidence and a jury are for.... Go read a book on due process... before calling me a traitor
        
        11 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:58 a.m.
        I support the Office of the President and Congress but not all in it or the job they've done... so what I want them destroyed??
        Better yet lets just let someone be Dictator?
        Two faced yer butt...
        
        Avg rating: (+7/-0 7)
        not2needy
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:02 a.m.
        Most of the people in this country have learned in the last 2 years exactly what Bush/Cheney and Rumsfeld are capable of, and what this man has accused Rummy of is not out of the rhelm of possibility. He has had to resign because of his mishandling of the situation in Iraq and the Americans anger over it.
        We support our TROOPS, not Bush.Cheney/Rummy. We know they are crooks, the absolute dregs of the earth.
        Oh and BTW, we have a dictator now, Bush had himself set up to become a dictator, he thought he had this country sewed up, then his house built on the sand came tumbling down in Nov.
        God don't like ugly.
        
        9 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+4/-3 1)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:08 a.m.
        So because of ALLEGED abuse and some proven acts, I'm supposed to just take as fact a guy who claims he was tortured (not by Rumsfield but his policy) as FACT???
        I wasnt born yesterday and neither would a jury convict just on a newpaper rag's story...
        but as with most sensationalized stories its "OH MY gOD 'What a bastard he should go to jail and we should wriote a blank check to this guy' before the facts have been seen.
        You can bet this guys credibility and Cheneys will be brought up and I have every right to ask for boths (I know Cheneys = crap) but I know nothing of this man. I can ask anything, if you dont like it too d a m n bad.
        
        5 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+7/-0 7)
        not2needy
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:13 a.m.
        I could care less what you ask, my problem came from the post i saw on the Iraq=Vietnam post when you said that you hated to see people turn on the troops, now here you are turning on them! I agree innocent until proven guilty, but Rummy has proven himself guilty a million times over in the last 8 years, what more do you need?
        
        4 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:18 a.m.
        go bother someone else, then
        
        3 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        not2needy
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:20 a.m.
        That was the intelligent answer i was looking for, you just proved my point, Thanks and Merry Christmas!
        
        2 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+10/-0 10)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:40 a.m.
        Merry whatever!!
        Come and arrest me then.... Your as bad as Bush et al... just the other extreme.
        You dont care what I ask... but that was the answer u were looking for. No matter what I say I'm a traitor and you'll never see even if it fell on your head.
        I beleive in bothsides of a story and have a right to ask (call me a traitor then) I want the facts. (you just cant handle the truth or understand due process) I dont believe in gOD as is my COnstitutional right and others to it but not at my expense (ie prove their is a gOD and I'm incorrect or that there is where I'm wrong- cant thought so)
        A jury has not heard the evidence agianst Rummy? Correct, rest my case?
        Have nice life. Keep our Troop safe ;)
        
        1 Reply
        
        Avg rating: (+6/-0 6)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:48 a.m.
        I do think Rummy's guilty just not in this case, yet.
        
        Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:12 a.m.
        gOD cares and has nothing to do with the affairs of men.
        He gave them 'Free Agency' or whatever its called.
        gOD cares not about sports, wars, economies, drunk drivers, victims or he'd stop the INSANITY. We are left to our own stupidity and devices and strive to be perfect or closer to him, like him, if you will.
        
        2 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        not2needy
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:17 a.m.
        God has EVERYTHING to do with the affairs of men. That is where you make your first mistake, leaving God out.
        Do you forget that there is a Satan as well as a God, that old devil has some powers too, and man makes the decision to follow one or the other and leaving God out of everything just gives the devil his way in.
        
        1 Reply
        
        Avg rating: (+9/-1 8)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 1:47 a.m.
        Sorry he (they) cant be proven.
        Many follow a moral and ethical life without gOD.
        Many folow their own good path without gOD or Satan.
        Many do right by and to others without gOD
        The bible even says others can, as do other religious and spiritual works.
        So please spare me the mistake of leaving gOD out. I dont push my beliefs on you dont push your judgement on me.
        gOD doesnt favor the US over UK, Colts ovr the Bears, ND over USC, he didnt keep the drunk from killing my son or the man from raping my 1st wife- NO omnipotent beings, nothing will change that. Sorry
  - Avg rating: (+1/-1 0)
    mrdynamite
    Dec. 20, 2006, 7:48 a.m.
    if innocent until proven guilty is what you are using to protect the administration you love then why did the adminstration you love hold this man for over 3 months without trial and then release him without charge?
    This guy was an ex American servicemen, no? but he deserves absolutely no consideration from you because in your mind the sdministration you love so couldn't have possibly done anything wrong...? what a sycophant.
- Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
  jordan11
  Dec. 19, 2006, 4:11 p.m.
  You are a disgrace to the Contitution, Justice and the American way!!!!!!>>>>
  How so? All I hear is a lot of anger at toward Rumsfeld, and I agree with it 100%. If you can't read the writing on the wall, that would be YOUR problem, but the man who made the accusation is NOT the first who has come forward about the illegal actions of those SOB's. YOU may not mind what they've done in YOUR name, but I sure as hell do, and I'll scream it til the day I die. THAT my dear, is dissent, and defines patriotism. Patriotism is NOT about going along when the obvious is right under your nose.
  
  22 Replies
  - Avg rating: (+11/-0 11)
    Illuminate
    Dec. 19, 2006, 4:34 p.m.
    INNOCENT till Proven guilty. Most are JUDGING before the evidnce is evaluated by a jury of peers. That IS NOT the American way (or gOD if you beelive in one)
    Its Bush this.. Bush that... Ching-Ching... Rumsfield.... CRIMINAL, NAZI, etc. THe dissent is OK the association and name calling isnt even productive. (ie driven out on a mule, what tar and feather him too??)
    Just the facts. Dissent is fine... Mob Mentality and NO trial and so called justice is not.
    I support (not whole heartedly and want them to stop the madness) the Admin till otherwise ruled.. by a court of LAW not public opinion by 25% of the less than 50% in this country that actually give damn and voted.
    on a side note:
    If they didnt vote- they should shut the &#^$ up!!!! there opinion doesnt count (unless serious circumstances prevented them from voting)
    
    21 Replies
    - Avg rating: (+4/-2 2)
      jordan11
      Dec. 19, 2006, 4:39 p.m.
      THe dissent is OK the association and name calling isnt even productive.>>>>
      It sure as hell is 'productive.' That bunch of morons doesn't deserve anything more than 'name calling.' To give them them the least 'respect' elevates them far beyond where they should EVER be allowed. They're the bottom of the barrel in MY Constitutional Republic, and MY anger is most appropriate.
      
      20 Replies
      - Avg rating: (+9/-0 9)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 4:39 p.m.
        Then your an moron, too- what if its proven untrue???
        What then??? What if he's just another disgruntled employee? What if others come out and prove he's lying?
        So then it would be what another NEOCON and Bsuh Conspiracy??
        
        19 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        jordan11
        Dec. 19, 2006, 4:46 p.m.
        Learn how to spell appropriately, and then you'll at least be in a believable position to decide who is an 'idiot.' Although, I do collect irony, so I suppose I should thank you for the 'ahem' remark.
        "What if">>>>>>
        You know, it wouldn't even matter if the man were lying. There is plenty of evidence that Rumsfeld broke our laws BEFORE this. Why do you suppose the jerks made the Military Commissions Act retroactive? Hmmmmm?
        And as far as this guy is concerned, I have no reason to doubt him, based on the past history of this traitorous administration.
        
        13 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 4:52 p.m.
        What does spelling have to do with the price of beans in China (or an opinion)?
        Come up with a better comeback, please? Immature at best?
        So you are doing exactly what all complain about the Admin doing- taking away their rights to representation and rights?? There is plenty of so-called evidence BEFORE- noone but public opinion has ruled on it.
        If so-- then you are what I said??? I beleive the Admin should be held accountable (ie Prison, IMpeachment. et al) but only after the facts and evidence have been seen by a Congress, jury and judge.
        
        3 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        jordan11
        Dec. 19, 2006, 5:21 p.m.
        Immature at best?>>>>>
        LMAO! You call me an 'idiot', and call MY response 'immature?' You're a hoot, you are, and my first multiple for that 'irony' collection. LOL!
        
        2 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 5:49 p.m.
        where did I call you and idiot??? You referenced morons and then so did I.
        I was using your words as a rebuttal yet I'm the one that cannot communitcate?
        Spade- you usually are a pretty levelheaded poster but why am I the one singled out when its a retort to his use of the word moron....
        He calls for the supsension fo some one rights yet I cant communicate.... This animal like steak and potatoes please?!
        
        1 Reply
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        jordan11
        Dec. 19, 2006, 7:22 p.m.
        was using your words as a rebuttal yet I'm the one that cannot communitcate?>>>>>
        If I had said 'you' are a moron, your response would be appropriate. As I didn't, your response was not.
        
        Avg rating: (+11/-0 11)
        Spadecaller
        Dec. 19, 2006, 5:13 p.m.
        jordan11; (reminder)
        When a blogger (like Illuminate) cannot communicate and exhange ideas without inflammatory and abusive behavior, it's best to move on to someone who can.
        Now, if I could always follow that advice ... I would really be ahead of the game. Good luck.
        
        8 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        jordan11
        Dec. 19, 2006, 5:24 p.m.
        I know about the rule for 'feeding the animals', but am rather enjoying this one. ;)
        
        Avg rating: (+3/-0 3)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 6:26 p.m.
        Wow so he calls someone a moron and I retort hes must be the same then and I'm the one that cant communicate.... Wow.. lets all just run Bush and everyone into hole pour gas on it light a match THEN send it to Congress, Soctus, and a jury..
        RIGHT ON!!!!
        
        6 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+6/-0 6)
        jordan11
        Dec. 19, 2006, 7:25 p.m.
        Wow so he calls someone a moron >>>>
        Not just 'someone'....but bush and company. Now you are free to debate what they've done 'right.' We already know what they've done 'wrong.' Hence the title....MORONS.
        
        5 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 7:47 p.m.
        Increased my pay via tax cuts (more Americans buying what I sell)
        Increased money in my pocket via tax cuts.
        Great economy (more people buying what I sell)
        My kids have jobs (low unemployment)
        Deposed Saddam
        Taking the fight to the Terrorists
        Holding Terrorists in GITMO (good idea BAD implementation)
        Sending $$$ and supplies to Israel to defend itself
        Replaced Rumsfield
        Supports our troops
        His wife is running a Literacy and Libray campaign to raise money for schools
        NCLB Act (good idea BAD implementation)
        Not Negotiating with Iran and Syria (good idea & BAD idea)
        Sticking to his beliefs (good idea BAD implementation)
        
        4 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)
        TemplarScribe
        Dec. 19, 2006, 9:58 p.m.
        Illy, he didn't increase your pay via tax cuts. It's been proven that 51% of ALL tax refunds went to those with incomes in the highest income tax bracket (around $250,000 a year). I'm pretty certain this excludes you. Because of these cuts, the rest of us will eventually have to pick up the bill. Remember, we're running the largest federal deficit in history, which our kids will have to pay off some day.
        **His wife is running a Literacy and Libray campaign...**
        I think this proves Jordan and Spadecaller's point about an inability to communicate.
        **Supports our troops**
        He's a chickenhawk who never saw combat, and is now wasting our troops and their materiel in a winless charade.
        **Replaced rumsfeld**
        Try "Replaced Rumsfeld three years too late."
        **Holding Terrorists in GITMO**
        As well as innocents -- they just released one guy after five years of detention. They never even had a case!
        I could go on. Illy, do yourself a favor: read more, post less.
        
        1 Reply
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 19, 2006, 10:15 p.m.
        Sure he did- you have NO IDEA what I do or dont make. Therefore moot point (and that I'm not part of the 51% or not- Got ESP or seen my bank acct- OH yeah Netscape gives out my SS or business address).
        What the Pres cant support his wifes campaign to erase illiteracy and library campaign? I think that's a very good thing they've both done
        Have you heard him say "****** the Troops", they suck, etc.
        Invalid point then
        Better late than never
        Our prisons dont hold innocents? Take a poll?
        You could do the same read more post less
        Our opinions differ but this is America... Stop me if you dare
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        jordan11
        Dec. 21, 2006, 11:37 a.m.
        Increased money in my pocket via tax cuts.>>>>
        Nope. His tax cut left the treasury short, causing less $$ going back to states. States & counties then had to increase revenue through tax hikes in any number of ways. That, along with the increase in gas over 5 years, leaves you with less.
        "Great economy (more people buying what I sell)">>>>
        The tax cut and more went into their gas tanks, & for the huge increase in utilities. They're buying what you 'sell' on credit, & the debt level of Americans is at a serious level.
        "Low unemployment">>>>
        Lower wages, and an increase in people below the poverty level, as well as an increase in those AT poverty level. They're working, and they're poor. They're also seriously in debt.
        "Sticking to his beliefs">>>>
        His job is to do what's best for my nation, not act like a stubborn fool.
        
        Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
        jordan11
        Dec. 21, 2006, 11:38 a.m.
        "Replaced Rumsfeld">>>
        Too late.
        "His wife is running a literacy program">>>>>
        whoopee. Our schools are a mess.
        "Support our troops">>>>
        BS! Sending people into an ill conceived and poorly implemented 'war' does NOT equal "support."
        "Taking the fight to terrorists">>>>>
        The 'terrorists' were NOT in Iraq!!!! We haven't even begun to address terrorism! There are cells here, and he's done NOTHING to protect our infrastructure. He has created the conditions for MORE people to join the terrorist 'cause.' We are more hated than at any time in our history.
        "Deposed Saddam">>>>
        And created a worse and more threatening environment for the Iraqi people, not to mention the tens of thousands we killed to 'save them' from Hussein. How do you think their families feel about that? hmmmmm?
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        LordyLordy
        Dec. 19, 2006, 11:23 p.m.
        I'm always amazed at how arm chair quarterbacks chew away at their team, when they themselves have never played in the game, probably could not run ten yards themselves, but by golly this runner or that runner, or that guarterback just is a real dipstick. I guess when you are willing to put yourself in their place, or even play in the game (as a soldier) you can talk. Some of us have been there. To be truthful what is wrong with this country is allowing politicians not trained combat soldiers run a war of any kind. They simply have no clue what happens in a real battlefield.
        Our soldiers are not policeman. They are taught to kill, not arrest you and take you to jail. Your enemys soldiers have the same mindset. WAR isn't a game. The losers don't go home like a basketball or football game and play again next week. The winners go home and write the history books and the losers come home in a body bag! That's truth!
        
        2 Replies
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        RedstateLib
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:27 a.m.
        So as a former soldier I do not believe the mission in Iraq is a military mission. Am I wrong?
        
        1 Reply
        
        Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
        Illuminate
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:31 a.m.
        It would be a military mision just a badly planned one, wouldnt it?
        The term mission would matter wehter it was ethical, right or not, would it?
        An assasination is a mission? Is it not?
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        ETproductions
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:41 a.m.
        Oops. Again, Netscape trips me up. Post went to the wrong place. No delete button. Flunk, Netscape.
        
        Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
        ETproductions
        Dec. 20, 2006, 12:43 a.m.
        Netscape simply doesn't work right. This was meant as a threaded comment on a post on the previous page. I tried it twice. Both times, it shows up here and not threaded. And no delete button. Double flunk. Netscape needs to fix this.
- Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
  MajJohn
  Dec. 19, 2006, 11:13 p.m.
  Let's give this guy his day in court and see if his allegations, that is all we have now, are proven in court. At least he'll have his day in court. You've tried the administration in your fantasy court. Your posted remarks show you to be pathetically ignorant and a raving lunatic. We are a nation of laws. What you suggest is totally hate driven. Your positive ratings show that there is a core of 20 or so Bush haters (0ut there) who agree with your venom. I am not condoning what was alleged. There was a lack of control at Abu Ghraib. It was unfortunate that an untrained National Guard General allowed the MI unit and civilian contractors to get out of hand. There is no evidence except allegations by the lunatic fringe that shows culpability of the administration, much less the President. Yes, punish the guilty, and leave your school yard mentality to the dung heap it came from!
  
  2 Replies
  - Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
    Illuminate
    Dec. 19, 2006, 11:19 p.m.
    Amen...
    and watch my negatives go up LOL!!!!!!
  - Avg rating: (+5/-2 3)
    LordyLordy
    Dec. 20, 2006, 12:05 a.m.
    I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said, "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what they will have for dinner, and well armed sheep protesting the vote!" If you're a sheep, I suppose the law isn't 100% perfect?
- Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
  LordyLordy
  Dec. 19, 2006, 11:15 p.m.
  Spoken like a terrorist?
Avg rating: (+4/-0 4)
USA4ME
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:06 a.m.
If what Vance claims is true, then he deserves a large enough award to take care of him the rest of his life. With all the confusion in American intelligence and security, misakes will happen. However there is no excuse for making a mistake and NOT fixing it.
Avg rating: (+4/-1 3)
Amazing1
Dec. 19, 2006, 12:28 p.m.
I am sure that this is not the only case. Every person who has been so treated should likewise file suit. They should name the whole gang, not just Rumsfield. What kind of crapola is this?
I found this very interesting, too that Mr. Vance was tracking corruption. Could it be that the corrupt did not want their dirty laundry aired and thus felt they could intimidate him into silence?
Do such evil people exist? Yes they do. And they currently occupy many of the positions of power in the current administration. Shotgun Dick, Witless George and the Rummy to just name a few. Sure, Rummy is out now, but not until after a big parade like he's some kind of hero. NOT!! And Gates. Is he any better? I doubt it.
As searchbeam says
Impeachment Now! Vigilence Forever.
And may the rest of us survive peacefully.
Avg rating: (+5/-0 5)
Spadecaller
Dec. 19, 2006, 12:40 p.m.
"At the U.S. Embassy, Vance told military officials that he was an FBI informant who regularly relayed information via cell phone and e-mail to a federal agent in Chicago about his employer's possible involvement in illegally selling weapons."
The illegal sale of weapons issue was probably why they locked him up. Where did the weapons come from? Who bought them. Who was selling them. I wonder if we will ever know.
Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
getreal1
Dec. 19, 2006, 1:13 p.m.
Let me guess this man was a republican, working security in Iraq, which we all know that if you are with a big time American company, that naturally you will make big time money in a war torn country. It goes to show how your own can really turn on you.

1 Reply
- Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
  Spadecaller
  Dec. 19, 2006, 1:51 p.m.
  And the rest of us too!
Avg rating: (+9/-0 9)
ameliog
Dec. 19, 2006, 2:24 p.m.
This story shows the government (or a part of it) is practicing intimidation of the highest order. Management of society through fear.
Avg rating: (+7/-0 7)
1basque1
Dec. 19, 2006, 2:53 p.m.
Intimidation at the highest levels of office is something to worry about!!I am sure that he is just one of many stories to come out in the future. Bush has kept the country living in fear...Oh I forget that we haven't been attacked since 9-11,No anthrax has been mailed either!

3 Replies
- Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
  Tcaros
  Dec. 19, 2006, 7:43 p.m.
  diogenes12
  There are many who would agree with your statement. Also, some believe the whole war on terror was a means to justify domestic surveillance. After 9/11, Sen. John Ashcroft speeded the Patriot Act through Congress with most not having read it. It was fear that allowed it to be accepted.
  Question:
  What would have happened to this administration had domestic surveillance and the outright violations of citizens rights been exposed without 9/11 having occurred?
  
  1 Reply
  - Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
    RedstateLib
    Dec. 20, 2006, 12:30 a.m.
    Most of those who support it would be screaming "Bloody Murder" that's what.
- Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
  Illuminate
  Dec. 20, 2006, 12:33 a.m.
  Hope they dont find the money I hid from the escort service my current wife doesnt know I used to run??!!!
Avg rating: (+2/-5 -3)
kymbolini
Dec. 19, 2006, 3:49 p.m.
what do you americans expect ... you just cannot hold people for no reason ...
one by one they will sue your government and take all your lovely taxes ...
the only terror is in your minds ...
bin laden has won a big battle ... he has made the united states of america and other places like england , europe live in fear ...
cold sweat is more dangerous than actually doing something ...
the first way to repairing the fear is to ....
sack all persons that had anything to do with the war on terror
expell all persons from your soil that are genuine threats
apologise to the world for your arrogance and stupidity
remove all your troops from around the world
make your home land more secure
terminate the CIA agency and the united nations
cancell all passports of american citizens for global travel
time will repair the damage that you have initially started

3 Replies
- Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)
  jordan11
  Dec. 19, 2006, 4:17 p.m.
  bin laden has won a big battle ... he has made the united states of america and other places like england , europe live in fear ...>>>>
  No he hasn't. Bush has. Bin laden has a group of a few thousand jerks, who like all punks, need to be hunted down and brought to justice. But rather than do that, and secure what is NOT secured within our infrastructure, bushy made entire nations 'suspect', and continues to call Iraqi's 'terrorists.' Using that as an 'excuse' for this dumb *ss 'war', some Americans go along with him, out of their ridiculous fear that all those Iraqi 'terrorists' will jump on the next boat to come over here and 'git' them. I have NEVER been 'afraid' of bin laden, but I have been p*ssed! At him and his pals, and at an administration that doesn't know what the HELL it's doing!
  
  1 Reply
  - Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)
    kymbolini
    Dec. 20, 2006, 3:29 a.m.
    amen
- Avg rating: (+3/-1 2)
  jeffery1
  Dec. 19, 2006, 4:48 p.m.
  In short, all the U.S. must do is become a nation concerned with justce and equity rather than meeting our resource demands. If we see treating others fairly and equitably as serving our national interests then the other things will fall into line, including punishing BushCo criminals.
Avg rating: (+11/-2 9)
ind06
Dec. 19, 2006, 4:03 p.m.
Yes, if only we would just go away the world would become a shining eden.
If America went away the world would fall on itself like a pack of rabid dogs seeing who would get to take our place. The smart money would be on China or Russia, think with their human rights recirds and secret govt. apparatus they'd do better?
And God knows I'm tired of this "world's policeman" BS, God knows I would be happy to leave you all to your own devices, if only so I wouldn't have to read self-righteous foreigners yammer out their hatred of America like a reflexive response.
As if we've never done a good thing.
Has time repaired the damage you did to the Aborigines?
Given them their land back yet?
Don't get on your high horse.
And stop making me defend this admin. like a raging neo-con!!

8 Replies
- Avg rating: (+7/-0 7)
  kymbolini
  Dec. 19, 2006, 4:27 p.m.
  i will clarify a few facts regarding australian
  yes we have given the tribal lands back to the indigenous people
  yes we as a nation have said sorry to them for the wrongs committed by the english governments and early australian governments . i do not hear your country saying sorry to the indians ?
  the fact is that iam not a nazi or as you put it a Neo Con ...
  your country and politics are out of control and people like you just have no idea on how to fix the problem
  our population is just over 20 million and we as a small nation we used to hold the respect of the global community until our but kissing politions started entertaining americans and their ways
  russia is now a multi country federation and has no means left to be a world leader
  china is a different senario , they hold mostl of your countries money , they manufacture nearly all of your consummerables , and i think they have very high moral standards
  
  7 Replies
  - Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)
    kymbolini
    Dec. 19, 2006, 4:31 p.m.
    we as australians share the country with the aboriginies .. we fly their tribal flags next to the australian flags .
    we accepted our vietnam veterans for a job well done when your country spat on them
    our defense force is the most highly skilled / trained in the world

Hello!

This Story is Archived

'Sheer Anger' over Torture Provokes Suit Against Rumsfeld »

Scale of 1 to 10

Story Tags What are Tags?

This Story is Archived and Commenting is Closed

Comments: 228