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Comments: 258

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  Avg rating: (+6/-0 6)

  populist

  Dec. 28, 2006, 4:56 p.m.

  Whatever it takes. The time to end this unconstitutional, immoral, ruinous and murderous war is....now!

  16 Replies

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    Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)

    bubba2

    Dec. 28, 2006, 5:36 p.m.

    AMEN!

    13 Replies

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      Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

      farmerman

      Dec. 29, 2006, 1:57 a.m.

      Hello. I have been on several threads tonight and the Libs are really over the top. Is it a full moon?
    • 
      Avg rating: (+23/-1 22)

      SamMyam

      Dec. 29, 2006, 2:49 a.m.

      David, since we've had a rather civil and somewhat enlightening conversation elsewhere, I think I should tell you I think you lose credibility in your critique when you call names, especially ones as silly as 'terrorist sympathizing' and ones as old as 'red communist.'

      These people are hardly coming from the far left; the take post shots at Clinton, who I believe you consider far left? and the bottom line is that they just want the kids home, which many reasonable people agree with, including moderate republicans and even a growing number of conservative ones.

      I think you'd do better to poke holes in their argument.

      2 Replies

      • 
        Avg rating: (+6/-0 6)

        SamMyam

        Dec. 29, 2006, 3:29 a.m.

        Obviously, I made a few typos in the third graf, Dave, and I hope you could read past them. "Post" shots should be "pot" shots, and "the" should be "they." Sorry.
      • 
        Avg rating: (+0/-1 -1)

        bubba2

        Dec. 29, 2006, 10:38 a.m.

        Ditto!
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      Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)

      Illuminate

      Dec. 29, 2006, 10:05 a.m.

      I know a girl who can bring handcuffs :)
    • 
      Avg rating: (+4/-0 4)

      bigG

      Dec. 29, 2006, 10:47 a.m.

      Is "Red Communist" the new buzz word Rush is using?

      3 Replies

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        Avg rating: (+1/-1 0)

        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 11:23 a.m.

        Not that I have heard and I listen to Rush often. You should try it -- you might learn something. A better phrase would probably have been a comparison to "Tokyo Rose". The disinformation campaign by Muslims and our Libs is in full swing and unfortunately their lies are undermining this Country.
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        Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)

        LordOfChaos

        Dec. 29, 2006, 4:13 p.m.

        Actually, it's not. Try listening before making specious arguements.
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        Avg rating: (+4/-0 4)

        contrast

        Dec. 29, 2006, 4:22 p.m.

        far as I know red and pinko commie have been arond since like the 70's
    • 
      Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

      Amok77

      Dec. 29, 2006, 12:28 p.m.

      DavidHalko - go easy on the left wing comments or folks will mistake you as a faggott, right-wing hate monger.
    • 
      Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

      JustCallMeV

      Dec. 29, 2006, 2:06 p.m.

      Now David, that was a little harsh. You have to admit there was some "obtuse" happenings with the entire current administration.
    • 
      Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

      looter

      Dec. 29, 2006, 2:37 p.m.

      What he said has got nothing to do with terrorism, Red Communism or Left. It is simple fact. This war must end and the conservatives who led us into this war must be put to trial for murder of American soldiers, rape of Iraqi men, women and children and violation of human right laws. That will get our credibility back in the eyes of the world. We are making an Island of ourselves through the evil ideology of Conservativesm.
    • 
      Avg rating: (+10/-5 5)

      hamy

      Dec. 29, 2006, 3:03 p.m.

      Just because a person in these United States of America disagrees with the current administration, does not mean that they are "terrorist sympethizing (sic.), red communist" or "far-left" leaning. It is simply people utilizing our only check and balance that Bush hasn't taken away: our voices.

      If you want to blindly follow someone, that makes you the soclialist or communist. Or more aptly, a sheep. Not one who questions authority. They are the true American heroes.
  • 
    Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

    scanner

    Dec. 29, 2006, 10:18 a.m.

    Agreed!!
  • 
    Avg rating: (+14/-4 10)

    LordOfChaos

    Dec. 29, 2006, 4:12 p.m.

    Unconstitutional: President Bush stated his case and gained the apporoval of Congress, as required by the Constitution.

    Immoral: Yes, it would be more moral to allow Saddam to drop chemical weapons on another 50,000 people, and to rebuild his nuclear program.

    Ruinous: The U.S. economy has shown steady growth for the last 4 years, and our unemployment is the lowest ever.

    Murderous: Certainly the Islamic extremists' priority is to kill women and children, and as many unarmed civilians as they can.

    Yelling "peace now" is pretty easy, especially for the intellectually lazy. I wish the Mastercard Marxists would fold up the anti-war tent, and give it a rest.
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  Avg rating: (+6/-1 5)

  Locky12

  Dec. 28, 2006, 6:17 p.m.

  That's gotta be the dumbest thing I ever read.

  BARNONE.

  29 Replies

  • 
    Avg rating: (+5/-1 4)

    populist

    Dec. 28, 2006, 7:22 p.m.

    does the "dumb" part include "drafting a plan to bring all American troops home; now, right away!" ??

    simple yes or no on that one would suffice.

    28 Replies

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      Avg rating: (+6/-0 6)

      Locky12

      Dec. 28, 2006, 8:56 p.m.

      after we kill the enemy and Iraq won't fall into the hands of Iran/Hezbollah!

      But I doubt the article included that!

      26 Replies

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        Avg rating: (+3/-1 2)

        populist

        Dec. 28, 2006, 9:16 p.m.

        that's what I figured. They're YOUR enemy. not mine.

        Replacing dictators, searching for weapons of mass destruction, and "spreading democracy" is not America's calling.

        and...

        There's absolutely NOTHING in the Constitution which permits it.

        25 Replies

        • 
          Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)

          Locky12

          Dec. 28, 2006, 10:54 p.m.

          There's no sense for me to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person now is there?

          7 Replies

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            Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

            bubba2

            Dec. 28, 2006, 11 p.m.

            Right ... it wouldn't be fair to you if populist took you on ...

            6 Replies

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              Avg rating: (+9/-1 8)

              farmerman

              Dec. 29, 2006, 2:04 a.m.

              Your posts are generally disgusting enough, but your desecration of the GOP symbol is too much. At least use the Lib donkey.

              5 Replies

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                Avg rating: (+3/-0 3)

                SamMyam

                Dec. 29, 2006, 2:51 a.m.

                Do you truly feel that the GOP elephant is sacred?
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                Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)

                bubba2

                Dec. 29, 2006, 10:40 a.m.

                Get an avitar of a dead donkey of you want ... doesn't bother me as that is your right.

                At least get your own avitar ...

                2 Replies

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                  Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

                  farmerman

                  Dec. 29, 2006, 11:47 a.m.

                  I was just kidding you. I don't care what you use. Actually your avitar is very creative.

                  1 Reply

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                    bubba2

                    Dec. 29, 2006, 2:42 p.m.

                    Ok ... sorry I took it too seriously ... thanks for clarifying!! :-)
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                Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

                jerryskid1

                Dec. 29, 2006, 11:43 a.m.

                The far right fascists have gone too far. Look what happened to Hitler and Mussolini. Keep the avatar bubba2. I think I'm going to get the Limbaugh in drag avatar.
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          Avg rating: (+5/-0 5)

          farmerman

          Dec. 29, 2006, 2 a.m.

          What makes you immune to the Muslims killers? Even if you are Muslim, you may not be the right sect. So don't be so flippant about who your enemies are.

          15 Replies

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            Avg rating: (+5/-1 4)

            populist

            Dec. 29, 2006, 2:06 a.m.

            What makes me immune to "muslim killers"????

            there aren't any that wish to harm me. so get over your crazy fears!

            being afraid of people thousands of miles away in a cave or the desert must be an awful way to live one's life.

            scared as a child, i guess. really sad what this country has sunk to.

            14 Replies

            • 
              Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)

              SamMyam

              Dec. 29, 2006, 2:57 a.m.

              The idea that a certain element in this country is finding in the Muslim religion a new enemy to fear, one to replace the vanished communists, is a compelling one. I think it's a bit of nostalgia; it's an attractive thing to have an image of oneself as combating evil, because it's an easier way to define oneself by opposition to something than to do the heavy lifting required by defining what one stands for. But if our country's politicians (of both parties, but more on the right than the left) remember anything of history's lessons (a debatable proposotion, surely), they know that stoking fear of the unknown is the easiest way to control people's behavior.

              7 Replies

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                Avg rating: (+3/-0 3)

                farmerman

                Dec. 29, 2006, 3:05 a.m.

                You can't be serious. Are you saying we had no reason to fear the Communists? If your memory is that short, I feel sorry for you. And that we are just replacing the Communists with the Muslims? So the WTC never happened or are you one of the hate Bush crowd that blames our own government?

                Your post is so ludricrous that my first response was to ask you what Muslim government you were a plant for. But I believe you really are serious. Hopefully you arn't an American and if you are, that your opinion is a tiny minority. Otherwise, we had all better be ready to face Mecca and have the towels ready.

                5 Replies

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                  Avg rating: (+20/-1 19)

                  SamMyam

                  Dec. 29, 2006, 3:23 a.m.

                  Yes, I am an American, and one whose memory is obviously a good deal better than yours. Anyone who has observed first-hand and studied this country's past obsession with communists can clearly see that the fear was far greater than the threat, and that it was a mutual thing: we scared them into ever more belligerant posture as they did us.

                  The rest of your comments are really not worth addressing; they have no bearing on anything of value.
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                  Avg rating: (+6/-1 5)

                  ETproductions

                  Dec. 29, 2006, 10:34 a.m.

                  Are you saying that a return to McCarthyism is just what America needs. Seems to me you want a new House Un-American Activities committee set up. If fascism is such an attractive form of government to you, why don't you just move somewhere where there is already a Big Brother to protect you from your many fears. Leave those of us with the courage to face freedom a place where we can enjoy what we fought and dies to gain. And if that means that some day we face a terrorist attack, I personally prefer that risk to the click of hobnails on a jack-booted squad of thought police.

                  1 Reply

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                    Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

                    ETproductions

                    Dec. 29, 2006, 5:24 p.m.

                    Wrong. That turned out to be the Tooth Fairy. Who's your honey then, JoSchmo. Adolph Hitler. He hated commies too.
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                  Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)

                  bigG

                  Dec. 29, 2006, 10:54 a.m.

                  The WTC definitely happened. Now why aren't we bringing OBL to justice? After all, he at least, by his own admission, conspired to commit that crime.
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                  Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)

                  populist

                  Dec. 29, 2006, 11:05 a.m.

                  well, the biggest "communists" are running the US right now....the Bush administration is loaded with old Trotskyites - who must be proud that they've run the biggest government in American history. Some conservatives!!
              • 
                Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)

                looter

                Dec. 29, 2006, 2:51 p.m.

                You are right, the Christian conservatives used the rhetoric against Communism and led this country into a cold war. When the so called "evil empire" fell we saw that they were nothing but paper tigers. After that they did not had anything to go against. People like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were speaking of attacking Iraq long before. The idea is find a foot hold in the heart of Islamic world. Baghdad was once the spirtual capital of the Islamic world so getting hold of it was a symbolic gesture of power over the religion of Islam. For this purpose the christian right lied, pimped, coerced, corrupted the system as well manipulated evidence to go for this war. 600,000 Iraqis died, 3000 American soldiers died, 25000 American soldiers were crippled for life. Now tell what is evil, one have to agree the Christian right is as evil as Al-Qaeda and Wahhabilsm. In a way religious fanticism in whatever form is harmful to humanity and organized religion must be banned.
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              Avg rating: (+5/-0 5)

              farmerman

              Dec. 29, 2006, 2:58 a.m.

              I'm sure some of the people killed in the WTC probably felt the same way you do. Probably the same for the people in Bali, in the Phillipines, the Russian children that were executed, the people killed in Spain and the UK. Need I go on? As I said before, don't be so flippant about who your enemies are.

              5 Replies

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                Avg rating: (+7/-1 6)

                SamMyam

                Dec. 29, 2006, 3:16 a.m.

                To the rest of you:

                My comments about fear being the main weapon of certain elements, above, seem particularly apt when observing this thread, do they not?

                2 Replies

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                  Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

                  ETproductions

                  Dec. 29, 2006, 11:05 a.m.

                  Gordon, I certainly hope there isn't anyone here who is such a Pollyanna as to dismiss the threat of terrorism. Claiming that Democrats are Defeatocrats who dismiss the threat of terror is just a Repug straw man, a lie, a fabrication. It is fear mongering at its most repugnant - used to grab political power that then can be applied to corrupt purposes.

                  Our debate is NOT about whether to address terrorism or not. It is about how best to address it. I maintain that invading Iraq made this country more vulnerable, not less. Our CIA concluded the same, much to the chagrin of the Republican fear factory. If that is true, then questioning "stay the course" is a legitimate expression of protecting America from terrorism, not a denial of the terrorist threat.

                  I believe that Bush should have captured or killed bin Laden. I hold Bush personally responsible for refusing to give our special forces on the ground at Tora Bora the troops to finish the job.

                  1 Reply

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                    Avg rating: (+3/-0 3)

                    ETproductions

                    Dec. 29, 2006, 5:22 p.m.

                    Sorry to have shot the wrong man. And yes, it was the indenting that threw me off.

                    Nonetheless, I'm glad I got a chance to disclaim the Pollyanna charge anyway, because it is such a favorite lie of the far right.
              • 
                Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

                bubba2

                Dec. 29, 2006, 10:47 a.m.

                Right ... all of those events where innocent people were killed were caused by terrorists, mostly Al Qaeda.

                The problem? We have spent 4 years in Iraq for ALL of the WRONG reasons. It HAS been proved that Iraq had NO connection to Al Qaeda, had NO connection to 9/11, and had NO WMDs.

                If we had STAYED in Afghanistan - where the purpetrators of 9/11 and those other attacks ARE - to fight and to find Bin Laden, then most of America would be supporting the military war effort to fight terrorists.

                We went to the WRONG country! We DO need to be fighting the terrorists that attacked us, but they are in Afghanistan, NOT in Iraq. THIS is why so many people do NOT support the Iraq 'war'.
              • 
                Avg rating: (+10/-0 10)

                looter

                Dec. 29, 2006, 2:54 p.m.

                They were acts of terror by Wahhabi Al-Qaeda. You want to know the acts of war and terror by Right wing conservatives? The Iraq war, 600,000 Iraqis died, 3000 American soldiers died, 25000 American soldiers were crippled for life. Is there any more terror needed to understand the evil of these Right wing conservatives?

                Go think.
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          Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

          LordOfChaos

          Dec. 29, 2006, 4:14 p.m.

          It's not like we did it twice already...

          There's nothing in the Constitution taht says we can't either.
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      Avg rating: (+1/-2 -1)

      LordOfChaos

      Dec. 29, 2006, 4:13 p.m.

      Yes.
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  Avg rating: (+10/-3 7)

  ameliog

  Dec. 28, 2006, 6:50 p.m.

  Good article. Break out the party balloons and give Junior a cake.

  So much better than that idiotic drivel on the politics page yesterday about a photo of Kerry. Talk about generating a hateful rant out of thin air...

  9 Replies

  • 
    Avg rating: (+25/-0 25)

    Locky12

    Dec. 28, 2006, 6:54 p.m.

    A photo speaks a thousand words. But this article is just diarreah of the mouth!

    8 Replies

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      Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)

      ETproductions

      Dec. 29, 2006, 10:21 a.m.

      I think it's kind of like Rush Limbaugh in reverse. But if you are going to tolerate all the vitriol being spewed on our land 24 hours a day from the likes of Fox News, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Drudge and the conservative spin tank, it's only fair for the liberal side to respond in kind.

      We in America have the chance to change the tone of political debate. We can either bring it up to the adult level, discussion real issues in an honest fashion, or we can let it slip entirely into the sewer with both sides doing nothing but propagandizing, debating straw men and throwing out insults and red herrings till the stench of rotting fish overwhelms this once proud nation. Ship of State or Garbage Scow. Time to choose.

      1 Reply

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        Avg rating: (+7/-0 7)

        kctrixter

        Dec. 29, 2006, 2:11 p.m.

        I agree it does sound like Rush Limbaugh in reverse. I find no value in either Rush or this.I do find a little humor in both though
    • 
      Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

      bubba2

      Dec. 29, 2006, 10:50 a.m.

      If you google Kerry's Iraq visit, you will NOT find the same 'info' that was in that Netscape posted story - He did actually interact with quite a few troops and the AP has NO reports of him being 'snubbed' or 'isolated' or 'ignored'.

      But its ok to make fun of anyone that is not BUSH or not a neo-con, while is is NOT ok to criticize Bush or other neo-cons?

      Try some valid arguments for a change ...

      5 Replies

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        Avg rating: (+3/-0 3)

        bigG

        Dec. 29, 2006, 10:59 a.m.

        It may not be possible. I think there is a lot of wound licking still going on after last month.

        2 Replies

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          Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

          ETproductions

          Dec. 29, 2006, 11:14 a.m.

          You're right, Big G. It's fair to expect that it will take time. After getting their butts kicked out of Congress back in 1994, it took the Democrats over ten years to mount a serious opposition. And in that time they turned into a much more centrist party. It will be very gratifying of the Republicans can do the same, and don't take over a decade to do it. As a small business owner, I'd like to get back to the party of my past. I'm one of those fiscally conservative, socially liberal libertarians who doesn't seem to fit all that well in either party's base.

          1 Reply

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            Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

            bigG

            Dec. 29, 2006, 12:02 p.m.

            Me as well. I am more of a Libertarian as I want the government to have as little interference as possible in my life. I also want the government to run their finances the way I have to run mine - in the black. I also don't fit either party's base, nor do I want to.
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        Avg rating: (+12/-0 12)

        Destry

        Dec. 29, 2006, 12:45 p.m.

        Bubba2 - Ok you upside down elephant, stop asking people to use facts. What you think we are anyway, informed? You know the right wing has a RIGHT to wrongly accuse anyone who disagrees with them. Now go upright yourself and stand in the corner. :=P

        1 Reply

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          Avg rating: (+3/-1 2)

          bubba2

          Dec. 29, 2006, 2:44 p.m.

          Darn ... I forgot ... :-)
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  Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

  ChefEOD

  Dec. 28, 2006, 8:48 p.m.

  Well, at least his ending line of it being a "no-brainer" was right...the article itself that is.
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  Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)

  RedstateLib

  Dec. 28, 2006, 11:35 p.m.

  Shhh! We don't want Georgie to here us then he would know there is no Santa Claus.

  1 Reply

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    SamMyam

    Dec. 29, 2006, 2:58 a.m.

    :-)
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  Avg rating: (+2/-0 2)

  SamMyam

  Dec. 29, 2006, 3:03 a.m.

  If you've spoken to any Iranian citizens, especially college students, in the last few years, as I have, you know the country is closer to a revolution than it's been since the Shah was overthrown. Ironically, the main thing that allows the mullahs to stay in control is stoking the fear of -- who else? - us. When Bush declared them part of the axis of evil, it was very easy to see the panic and outrage of the students on their blogs and sites, many of whom were feeling the first strong pull of nationalism; many were asking whether they might not be better off with the ayatollahs, who at least understood them and would not attempt to christianize them. Better the devil you know, and all that.

  26 Replies

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    farmerman

    Dec. 29, 2006, 3:08 a.m.

    Chamberlain would have loved you.

    I've got a question for you. Was Iran always a Muslim country? If not what happened to the previous religion?

    11 Replies

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      Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)

      SamMyam

      Dec. 29, 2006, 3:13 a.m.

      Farmer, your comments in this thread are really not at all related to the subject, and I have no intention of letting you drag me off to chase your rather obvious red herrings, or respond to your childish and pointless insults. After only an hour or so of observation, I recognize that as your strategy; it's not particularly ingenious or convincing. So unless you have something to contribute, please don't bother to address me. Thanks.

      4 Replies

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        Avg rating: (+0/-2 -2)

        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 10:51 a.m.

        Don't worry I'll not bother with trying to carry on a discussion with you. You make your generalized statements and when challenged or questioned you put on this elitist act of superiority and fail to answer. AYou are a danger to this Country.

        You can avoid dealing with the truth, but you will not be able to avoid the coming events in this religious war.

        1 Reply

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          Avg rating: (+4/-0 4)

          Amok77

          Dec. 29, 2006, 1:47 p.m.

          Don't get shook Farmerman..its not what you say, its the way you say it. What you say is the "truth" and everyone else is full of s**t, right? Why don't they see it our way? :)
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        Avg rating: (+1/-0 1)

        NavArmy

        Dec. 29, 2006, 11:07 a.m.

        I find that blocking neo-cons calms my nerves and makes threads alot shorter. Blocked framerman first thread I came into contact with his BS. Had to block DavH too much drivel!

        1 Reply

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          Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

          farmerman

          Dec. 29, 2006, 11:52 a.m.

          That is real intelligent. If you don't like what people have to say then just pretend those ideas don't exist. So you stay in your comfort zone and listen only to those that believe as you do. What do they say, fat, dumb and happy. Add dead to that if we don't win this religious war.
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      Avg rating: (+3/-1 2)

      ETproductions

      Dec. 29, 2006, 10:25 a.m.

      "Was Iran always a Muslim country?"

      Was ANY country always of the religious persuasion it has today?

      More to the point, coming from someone in a country that worshiped the snakes, ancestor's spirits and medicine men so recently, what's that got to do with the price of eggs?

      5 Replies

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        Avg rating: (+4/-2 2)

        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 10:57 a.m.

        The point was that Sammy had said the Iranian students were afraid of being converted to Christianity. Well these good Muslims destroyed the Zoroastrians that were the major religion in Iran. So I guess they understand how people can have their religion destroyed.

        4 Replies

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          Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

          ETproductions

          Dec. 29, 2006, 11:23 a.m.

          I understand that well enough. My point was that happened over 1,350 years ago and has absolutely no more to do with this thread than did the conversion of the indigenous American population from worshiping the Great Spirit to Christianity. Do right wingers ALWAYS avoid real debate? Is it only possible to divert and obfuscate?

          2 Replies

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            Avg rating: (+15/-1 14)

            farmerman

            Dec. 29, 2006, 11:59 a.m.

            What happened 1,400 years ago has a very definite bearing on what is taking place today. You need to spend some time reading up on history and particularly about Islam.

            Listen to the Muslim leaders and you will hear direct quotations from what Muhammad said in the 600s and those quotes are about death to Unbelievers. There are the same references to Unbelievers, Jews and other enemies of Islam you will find in the Koran. To many of you secularists, religion doesn't mean a thing, but to Islamists they take their faith much more seriously.

            So no, it is you Libs who avoid any debate on Islam and prefer to live in your alternative reality. Wise up.

            1 Reply

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              Avg rating: (+4/-0 4)

              ETproductions

              Dec. 29, 2006, 2:49 p.m.

              I have read up on Islam. 911 definitely "got my attention" in that respect. I know that a small fraction of the Wahaabist movement is aligned with bin Laden. Of the 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, most are NOT our enemies and I have no intention of fomenting hatred and trying to implement a Nazi final solution where we wipe out over 1/6th of the inhabitants of the earth.

              Osama bin Laden attacked us on 911. He has admited, even bragged about this fact. Saddam didn't attack us. Iraq didn't attack us. The students trying to bring political change to Iran didn't attack us. Unless it becomes obvious that they are planning to attack us, I am perfectly willing to remain true to my Christian roots and share this world with them. My Lord is the Prince of Peace, not the Prince of Death.

              If GWB had been president back when Hirohito hit us, I suppose he would have lobbed a few bombs at Japan before invading Venezuela to topple Chavez and declare "Mission Accomplished".
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          Avg rating: (+14/-0 14)

          PapaWolf

          Dec. 29, 2006, 10:43 p.m.

          >>Muslims destroyed the Zoroastrians

          Actually my boss, who is Iranian, is Zoarastrian. He and his family left Iran in the late '70's for political, not religious, reasons. But Zoarastrianism is alive and well in the Middle East.
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    Avg rating: (+0/-0 0)

    farmerman

    Dec. 29, 2006, 3:10 a.m.

    Please tell me you are not a teacher and if you are, that you are not teaching your misguided theories to American students.

    3 Replies

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      Avg rating: (+6/-0 6)

      SamMyam

      Dec. 29, 2006, 3:25 a.m.

      I guess I'd wonder what makes gives you that particular suspicion/paranoia. After reading your posts, I have no such question regarding your profession.
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      Avg rating: (+6/-0 6)

      bigG

      Dec. 29, 2006, 11:03 a.m.

      "Please tell me you are not a teacher and if you are, that you are not teaching your misguided theories to American students."

      And who would be the "decider" as to what is a misguided theory?

      1 Reply

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        Avg rating: (+6/-0 6)

        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 2:08 p.m.

        The people who are paying his salary, the parents of the students and the people of this Country.
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    SonicNavgirl

    Dec. 29, 2006, 8:47 a.m.

    I am a United States Sailor.

    I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.

    I represent the fighting spirit of the Navy and those who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world.

    I proudly serve my country's Navy combat team with Honor, Courage and Commitment.

    I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all.

    While your arguements are articulate and well thoughtout, your oppinions are a sad product of a societies revisionist history. I agree wholeheartedly that leaders throughout history, American and foriegn, have used fear to gain support.Can you think of a greater motivator than the fear of loosing one's life or worse to loose the people you love most? There are a few however who did not need fear to motivate them into action. Honor binds them, Courage defines them and Comitment to freedom is their legacy.Our grandparents were made of stronger stock.

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      SonicNavgirl

      Dec. 29, 2006, 9:23 a.m.

      cont.

      Fear, and outrage after the attack on Pearl harbor motivated all Americans to enter into a war most knew we should have been involved in.Thous who did not want to fight and wanted and thought it wasn't our war were quickly silenced when it war was brought closer to home. Our grandparents had Pearl Hobor we had 9/11. How many times must we be attacked? How many more civilians must die in our cities and states before this war is justified in the eyes of all its people? Make no misguided mistakes war was brought to our shores. We are not fighting for oil. We didn't fight for Germany's schnitzel or Japan's yakisoba. Though we do enjoy the spoils of war. To the victor goes the spoils. America doesn't hord anything they share with other nations. "With great power comes great responsibility." I may be sentimantal and you may believe my arguements are drivil. I do not care. I care about my family my countries and my God.

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        bubba2

        Dec. 29, 2006, 10:58 a.m.

        I commend your willingness to serve our country, and I commend even more your courage in this time of upheaval and terrorist threats.

        I posted this above, but doing so again because it is relevant to your discussion of defending us from terrorism and terrorist attacks.

        In WWII, the enemy was VERY well defined - they wore uniforms, they were from SPECIFIC countries, and ALL in those countries were basically unified in their purpose.

        In the 'war on terror', there is no specific country (outside of the centralization of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan), there are no uniforms, and there is no unified purpose of all in any one country to BE a 'terrorist'.

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          bubba2

          Dec. 29, 2006, 11:04 a.m.

          cont'd ...

          We - actually you and all of our troops - have spent 4 years in Iraq for ALL of the WRONG reasons. It HAS been proved that Iraq had NO connection to Al Qaeda, had NO connection to 9/11, and had NO WMDs.

          If our troops had STAYED in Afghanistan - where the purpetrators of 9/11 and those other attacks ARE - to fight and to find Bin Laden, then most of America would be supporting the military war effort to fight terrorists.

          We DO need to be fighting the terrorists that attacked us, but they are centered in Afghanistan, NOT in Iraq. THIS is why so many people do NOT support the Iraq 'war'.

          People who are against the Iraq 'war' are NOT against the troops. You and all the other troops are doing your DUTY and almost all Americans SUPPORT your SERVICE to this country.

          The 'beef' is with the POLITICIANS that are controlling the military in spite of what the military officers know the troops should be doing.
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        PapaWolf

        Dec. 29, 2006, 10:58 a.m.

        SonicNavGirl,

        First, let me thank you for your service & commitment to the US and all of its citizens. I've had many friends in the military over the years and, to a person, they are all people of honor, courage, etc....

        Unfortunately, your argument about 9/11 is a bit flawed. Yes, we were attacked. Yes, we needed and need to obtain justice for those killed and affected by the attack, meaning the whole country as well as many foreign countries - Muslim countries included. After all, Muslims are a part of this country and were attacked no less barbaricly than the non-Muslims.

        Your flaw comes in 2 parts:

        1) Those responsible have never been captured and tried IN A COURT OF LAW. THAT is where the justice should be ministered.

        2) Iraq had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11. Report after report, from the Republican-led Congress even, has reiterrated this.

        Again, thank you for your service. It's people like you that allow us to hold discussions like this.

        L8r
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        vor

        Dec. 29, 2006, 11:06 a.m.

        All well and good. We had every right to attack Afghanistan as the Taliban controlled that country and allowed Al-Qaeda to operate with impunity. WE HAD NO BUSINESS ATTACKING IRAQ WHICH WAS IN NO WAY INVOLVED WITH 9/11. Look at what we have now created. We have American troops defending a government that despite the rhetoric itself defends Shia militia groups because that is where their basis of support is drawn.

        This is not a black/white world, there are a lot of grey areas. We were attacked once by a non-sovereign entity. They have not been capable of attacking us again. Yet we spend a trillion dollars pursuing everyone but those who attacked us. They still roam free in the Pashtun regions of Pakistan. Do not have blind faith in your government.
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        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 11:16 a.m.

        Thank you for your service to this Country.

        You hit the nail right on the head. I've been trying to explain to people like Sammy, the danger we are facing, but it is like they are brain dead. Unfortunately it will take more death and destruction on our shores before some of them open their eyes. Plus, there will always be those that will blame America for whatever happens, including more attacks on us.

        The WW2 generation was indeed a much greater one than we are today. We have become soft, self centered and a nation of appeasers and cowards. If this doesn't change, we will lose this Nation and in the process, many our lives.
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      populist

      Dec. 29, 2006, 11:08 a.m.

      One point - Supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States actually requires you to refuse to fight in most American wars......did you know that?

      Might want to check your UCMJ on your duties in regards to receiving illegal or unconstitutional orders.

      Would you be so dedicated to your oath - to the Constitution - that you'd be willing to sit in jail?

      Every US war since Korea has been in violation of the Constitution - but yet, our military doesn't keep its oath and refuse to serve. quite an oddity, I might say.

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        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 12:15 p.m.

        Attack our troops, you Libs are expert at that. Afterall, with leaders like Dean, Kerry and Durbin it is only natural that you hate this Country and our Service People.
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        SonicNavgirl

        Jan. 3, 2007, 8:39 a.m.

        I apologize for not commenting further earlier but I have been busy.Please don't try to insult my intelligence. I know what my duties are and insubordination and treason aren't among them. Your suggestion that every conflict since Korea was unconstitutional is simply your opinion. The military follows the orders of the Commander and Cheif. He cannot continue a military action indefinatly without the sanction of Congress. If all these conflicts were as you suggested unconstitutional the matter should have been brought before the Supreme Court. Our country operates on checks and balances. I love my country and I am not a Benedict Arnold nor do I believe that America should have another revolution.To suggest that all people in the service are idiots that can't tell the difference in lawful and unlawful orders is ludacris and insulting.Your freedom of speech and all the other freedoms you enjoy where given to you and all americans through the sacrafice of our military past and present.
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  dEditor

  Dec. 29, 2006, 1:25 a.m.

  What an idiot. And then we have other idiots supporting this idiot in his idiotic assessment. As for the Dead, Since 2003 there have being as many murders in Los Angeles supposedly peaceful safe streets as there has being in WAR TORN unsafe streets of Iraq. As for this war In Iraq with politically motivated scumbags preaching defeatism as the proper course of action and citing bringing our troops home as the reason what could be more hypocritical and more uncaring as these idiots never cite the cost and loss of innocent life that will occur if their selfish reasoning was adhered too. Thank God we have a leader who does what is best for America and bends his ears to idiotic talk of appeasment and defeatism.

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    populist

    Dec. 29, 2006, 1:52 a.m.

    wow....500,000 deaths in los angeles? could you cite a source on that one?

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      SamMyam

      Dec. 29, 2006, 3:09 a.m.

      The likely source for the assertion you see being made here so many times in the last few days -- that LA has had more deaths than Iraq -- comes from right-wing radio gabmeister Sean Hannity; he tossed it out in a recent braodcast, and cited nothing to backup that claim, despite the fact that he was asked for exactly that on-air.

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        populist

        Dec. 29, 2006, 11:10 a.m.

        Amazes me how those same things are just parrotted! Thanks for the feedback.

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          farmerman

          Dec. 29, 2006, 12:01 p.m.

          Sean probably mistakenly used the number of illegals in LA. He just got the threats to the US mixed up, in his comments.
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        bigG

        Dec. 29, 2006, 11:12 a.m.

        Hannity probably didn't back it up because it isn't true unless you count car accidents, natural deaths, etc. As recently as 2000, the murder rate in L.A. was around 200 per year. I couldn't find more recent figures, but I bet it hasn't jumped to 1,000.

        Even if it were true, that still would be no justification.
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  SamMyam

  Dec. 29, 2006, 3:35 a.m.

  This thread seems rather dead, so I am going to make this last comment and then go to bed.

  I think this article may be a bit shrill and sarcastic for some of your tastes, but I find that understandable, if it's written by someone who has a direct stake in the war, though family, which I believe it is. The helplessness one feels in that situation is immense, believe me; I have been there. Thank god I am no longer. The populist party is a reputable and independent organization which, should it ever gain a substantial following, would go a long way toward helping to correct this country's political spectrum. I believe if you read more of their analyses, you'll find that this isn't exactly typical of their cooly reasoned articles.
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  Nordic

  Dec. 29, 2006, 7:04 a.m.

  For us living in Europa the USA some years ago seems to be a powerful state economic and military, but also frightening aggressive and empiric for oil . A protective step for some countries was to get nuclear power.

  Bush and his war on Iraq to protect the dollar has changed all that.

  It's time to stop this war now.
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  mr-dallas

  Dec. 29, 2006, 8:07 a.m.

  "Let's have a Victory Party for Bush!"

  -Let's NOT!

  Mr. Dallas
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  vor

  Dec. 29, 2006, 9:26 a.m.

  "... now made the great leap from possibility to high probability; and that is, extending the regional conflict in the Middle East by bombing the hell out of Iran, filling the Persian Gulf with aircraft carriers, cruise-missiles' catapults and a likely stream of oil tankers that will never reach the Strait of Hormuz."

  Well this is Cheney's plan or at least will be the end result of it if we intervene further in the region. We block the Strait of Hormuz and the world economy goes into the tank and global tensions rise to levels not seen since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Yet this time all eyes are focused on Washington as the villain. It wont matter then what ridiculous words Ahmadinejad has said at that point.

  Under this administration the world view of America has changed, and with good reason. When we rattle the saber of pre-emptive war the next time the world will cast a newly wary eye upon us, again with good reason.
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  farmerman

  Dec. 29, 2006, 10:41 a.m.

  You are exactly right, but after several months on these threads it is becoming obvious to me that we have a lot of people in this Country that are living in denial. It is just amazing to me that we can be at war, our enemy constantly telling us that they are planning our destruction and yet so many people are pretending that they are not in danger. As happened in this thread, it is the common retort that I'm living in fear, paranoid and there are usually charges of bigotry.

  This Country and the world are in deep, deep trouble.
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  bubba2

  Dec. 29, 2006, 11:09 a.m.

  It is not Muslims, and you are stereotyping an ENTIRE race of ethnic/religious people by that blatant overstatement.

  Muslim EXTREMISTS, mainly those who subscribe to Al Qaeda - THOSE people do want Americans dead. That is pretty obvious.

  Yet again - Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, NO WMDs, and NO connection to Al Qaeda! We invaded the WRONG country. We should have stayed in AFGHANISTAN because THAT is where Bin Ladin is and that is where the HEART of the Al Qaeda movement is. If we are going to wage war on the attackers of Americans, we need to be doing that in the RIGHT place!

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    farmerman

    Dec. 29, 2006, 12:06 p.m.

    Muslim Extremist. You guys love that tag. That way you can dismiss what is really happening around the world and blame it on just a "few" misguided individuals. You obviously don't know much about Islam and the goals of that religion. You are a danger to this Country as a result of you lack of knowledge about the enemy. So you keep your politically correct, non-judgemental view and if there are enough like you, this Nation will cease to exist as a free people.

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      Akamoke

      Dec. 29, 2006, 12:45 p.m.

      Hmm..I guess you know all there is to know about Islam and Moslems from the comfort of your home in good ol US of A

      Have you gone through pains trying to understand what the Moslems are on about vis a vis the extremists

      It is folks like yourself that make it hard to win a war like in Iraq today because you go in with the gung ho attitude that, we must smoke em all regardless of who is caught in the line of fire

      Keep on stereotyping and good luck in your "internet war on terror" and branding all moslems as potential terrorists...Hitler would be proud of the generalizations

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        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 3:21 p.m.

        " It is folks like yourself that make it hard to win a war like in Iraq" -- So by identifying the enemy and trying to understand their motives, makes it difficult to fight that enemy. Well, if you look at how we have done with our occupation of Iraq, I would say we went in not having a plan to deal with the reality of the situation. It is people like you who are Muslim apologists and attack those who try to identify what we face that stand in the way of our success. But perhaps your actions are not accidental and are being pursued in order that America is not successful.

        " Have you gone through pains trying to understand what the Moslems are on about vis a vis the extremists" -- What is this supposed to mean? That moderate Muslims are fighting against the "extremists". If that is what you mean, then the truth of the matter is that, it is not happening. In addition I reject your use of extremists, a more proper designation would be Fundamentalist.
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      RedstateLib

      Dec. 29, 2006, 1:22 p.m.

      Okay you've won me over. I now live in complete terror that a bunch of muslims are going to blow me and my family up I don't think I even have the courage to leave my house any more. I want the government to listen to everybody's phone calls, read everybody's emails and monitor everybody's bank accounts just so I might someday feel safe enough to go outside again. I live in terror so I guess when everyone else in this country feels like I do the terrorist win because we will all be terrorized. The great thing is you helped them because you convinced me I should live in fear of them. Congratulations!

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        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 3:28 p.m.

        You can live however you want. You can believe that OBL is your best friend, if you want. I could care less. My concern with your alternative reality is that it threatens this Country. That due to your lack of knowledge of who we are fighting that you and your Party are going to get a lot of us killed.

        I don't live in terror, but I sure understand what we face. So attack our government and President, if it makes you feel good. Vote for the appeasers, if it makes you feel good. But never forget that we are going to have to deal with this Muslim threat, and the longer we wait, the worse it will be.

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          RedstateLib

          Dec. 29, 2006, 3:34 p.m.

          I know the threat of terrorism is real. I only disagree with you about the extent of the threat and how it should be dealt with. I am not about to let 19 guys with boxcutters and the minority of muslims who support them change who I am as a person. I am not going to let them force me through fear to give up the very principles that this country was founded on. You may be willing to do that but I am not.

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            farmerman

            Dec. 29, 2006, 6:09 p.m.

            You have just hit on the crux of why there is so much animosity between Libs and Conservatives. First, we believe the danger is extremely high for this Country, and your failure to understand this, puts us at even greater risk. Then your seeming concern about an Al Quada Bill of Rights vs. our ability to stop terrorist attacks, even divides us further. Then on top of this there is the Mexican invasion and the Secular vs. Traditional, and this Country is in a mess.
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          RedstateLib

          Dec. 29, 2006, 3:59 p.m.

          By the way I don't belong to a party.

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            farmerman

            Dec. 29, 2006, 8:02 p.m.

            You didn't vote for Kerry? You fooled me.
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          RedstateLib

          Dec. 29, 2006, 4:02 p.m.

          Good thing President Clinton doesn't think like you do. Because after OKC we would have locked up or killed all the white Christian men of military age, then who would we have to fight the war on terror? You?

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            farmerman

            Dec. 29, 2006, 6:15 p.m.

            Oh, really what Denomination was teaching that their members should go out and kill the unbelievers? What was the Pastor's name? I couldn't even tell you what faith, Timmothy McVeigh was. Can you? This is just another of the you Libs stretch to try to establist moral equivalency. It does not work. So give it up and wise up.
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      bubba2

      Dec. 29, 2006, 2:49 p.m.

      You are stereotyping people that are my co-workers, and I can assure you that just because they practice the Muslim faith they are "out to get me".

      One of my coworkers and I have discussed this at some length, so your accusation that I "don't know much about islam" and that I "lack knowledge" of the enemy is erroneous.

      Since I have worked with some of these people since well BEFORE 9/11, I believe I do have SOME experience to substantiate that NOT all 'Muslims' want to kill Americans.

      YOUR judgemental attitude is offensive to my coworkers and therefore is offensive to me.

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        SamMyam

        Dec. 29, 2006, 3:17 p.m.

        Do you recall the fear that we were all fed in the late 1960s? It came from many different groups of caucasians; often it was the product of fear and ignorance, but the story was pushed hardest by the Nixon campaign and others on the right. Whether they started it or simply fanned the flames doesn't really matter.

        The story went something like this: Black people everywhere are a monolithic enemy; they all think the same and they all hate white people. The riots are your future. The high birthrate is a plot to overtake us in number. You can trust no black person to do anything but serve other blacks. There are infiltrators in our country from other countries where black people exist, African communists, and they have poisoned the minds of the american blacks; do not make the mistake of thinking they're your countrymen.

        Does this now make any sense to anyone? Do blacks still seem like dangerous aliens on a cosmic evil mission?
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        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 3:31 p.m.

        I never said "all" Muslims want to kill Americans. No more than all Germans wanted to kill Americans. You tend to come across as fairly intelligent. Use some of that brain power to do some reading and learning.
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        bubba2

        Dec. 29, 2006, 3:52 p.m.

        (first sentence) ... "they are NOT "out to get me".
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      PapaWolf

      Dec. 29, 2006, 4:47 p.m.

      >>You obviously don't know much about Islam and the goals of that religion. You are a danger to this Country as a result of you lack of knowledge about the enemy.

      And you apparently don't know the Middle East. Not ALL of us Lebanese, Arabs, Persians, Afghans, etc., are Muslim. There are Orthodox Christians, Marinite Christians, Jews, Zoarastrians, and others all through the Mid-East. And not all Muslims are Arab/Pers/Afg/etc.

      Your desire to bomb an entire region, killing HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS because of an attack on our soil is what's causing people to hate us.

      Question - Why didn't we carpet bomb Michigan after Timothy McVeigh destroyed the fed bldg? After all, Michigan was and IS harbor the terrorist organization, the Michigan Militia. Was it because they're good-ole white boys?

      An extremist from ANY religion, race, political ideology... is dangerous.

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        farmerman

        Dec. 29, 2006, 6:29 p.m.

        Again, do you folks actually read the posts you are disputing?

        If you are talking to me, I never said all Persian, Arabs and etc were Muslims. But in most of those countries you have reduced most other religions to a small percentage of what they used to be.

        See my post above about you Libs attempt at moral equivalency won't work. If McVeigh was acting as part of some Militia and they were instructing, encouraging and etc. him to do this, then we should use every law available to punish them. But a Militia in Michigan doesn't quite compare to a religion of 1.1 billion where in many countries like Saudia Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Phillipines, Russia, UK and etc. the followers are being taught to kill the Jews and Unbelievers.

        "An extremist from ANY religion, race, political ideology... is dangerous" --- You are exactly right. And an extremist religion is a billion times more dangerous.

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          PapaWolf

          Dec. 29, 2006, 11:03 p.m.

          According to http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions there are about 1.5 Mil Muslims in the US. Are you saying that all 1.5 Mil want to destroy all non-Muslims in this country? If so, you don't know the Muslims I know.

          >>an extremist religion is a billion times more dangerou