Editorial: Bullying Iran »
Posted By deathray 1 year, 8 months ago in NewsGiven America's bitter experience in Iraq, one would think that President Bush could finally figure out that threats and brute force aren't a substitute for a reasoned strategy. But Mr. Bush is at it again, this time trying to bully Iran into stopping its meddling inside Iraq.
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deathray
Hm...summarizing a life...Investment banker, sailor, unintentional gourmet cook. Ex US Naval officer, also Foreign Service. Split my time between NYC and Miami Beach ...
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Comments So Far: 94
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Spadecaller1 year, 8 months ago
This editorial is a simplistic explanation -- not too different than a CNN news bite, in that it omits the most important details better known as "motives."
I do not agree with the premise that "one would think Bush could figure out that "threats and brute force aren't a substitute for a reasoned strategy." The presumption that George Bush has masterminded any of these strategies is too absurd in itself.
Unprincipled militarism to seek oil and power have provided Bush with his orders for which he enacts as they are relayed to him from his real boss, Vice President Cheney.
To serve the interests of Halliburton, the defense contractors, and the oil companies, the dupe and slow witted, George Dugya, has been willing to sacrife his legacy, his popularity, and even his feelbe attempt at apppearing presidential to serve his corrupt masters.
The main stream media falsely promotes the idea that this administration failed because of stupidity.
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neuroticus1 year, 8 months ago
I agree, Dubya wasn't wise enough to understand how the peoples of the Middle East were going to react to his 'stratergies'. Neither is Cheney, his braintrust.
They obviously thought Iraq would be a Nazi Germany redux, ie the Iraqis would sheepishly accept the heavy handed presence of Big Brother America. They were wrong, although have not had to pay the price for their mistake.
At this point, I blame American citizens for not demanding they be removed sooner. The fact that he was reelected shows that he had much more support than Aged WWII vets voting for him. America the wise. lol.
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ETproductions1 year, 8 months ago
PNAC makes it quite clear what this war is about. The elites behind it fear that within 10 to 15 years, the growing hatred of America on the Arab streets will cut of the oil their high-flying life requires. Rather than forge ahead on alternative energy and break their addiction to Saudi oil, they choose to provoke what they KNEW would be a never-ending war in hopes of subduing the entire Middle East and turning it into an American puppet.
The tragicomedy of this is that in doing so, they have been spewing raw gasoline on the smoldering embers of Arab hatred of America. If Cheney is allowed to continue to pull Bush's puppet strings, he WILL gin up a war with Iran. The results are difficult to predict, but all the outcomes are terrible.
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ETproductions1 year, 8 months ago
At best, we somehow hang on in Iraq amid their civil war and a powerfully reinvigorated onslaught by al Qaeda and by Hezbollah and the 420,000 troops of Iran's standing army. Our casualties skyrocket from 3000 in 4 years to 3000 a month. We have no choice but to institute a draft to send enough new cannon fodder into the fray to even hold our current ground.
cont.
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ETproductions1 year, 8 months ago
Worse, the whole region erupts into warfare. The "friendly" governments of Jordan, Nuclear Pakistan and Oil Rich Saudi Arabia are overthrown by radical Islamists. They pour into the civil war on the side of the Iraqi Sunnis. Casualties mount to unsustainable levels and we are forced to withdraw because a draft can't recruit and train people fast enough for us to hold our ground. We leave the entire middle east in all-out war with tiny Israel to defend itself the only way it can, with nuclear weapons.
And the abysmal possibility has to be included. With control of all Middle Eastern oil on the line and an energy hungry world full of nuclear nations desperate to have their "rightful" share, World War III breaks out and quickly escalates to a nuclear confrontation on a global level. Doomsday. It could happen. An all because a few elites want to live big and don't care how many innocent young men and women they sacrifice to their God of wealth and power.
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ETproductions1 year, 8 months ago
And the absolutely abysmal but quite likely scenario has to be included. With control of all Middle Eastern oil on the line and an energy hungry world full of nuclear nations desperate to have their "rightful" share, World War III breaks out and quickly escalates to a nuclear confrontation on a global level.
Doomsday. It could happen. An all because a few elites want to live big and don't care how many innocent young men and women they sacrifice to their Great God of Wealth and Power.
Cheney and Bush MUST be impeached. We the people cannot afford the terrible cost their lust for power will require of us.
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vor1 year, 8 months ago
Thanks for mentioning PNAC, everyone in America should know about this thinktank. Some may agree with their objectives. After all, what is wrong with America maintaining its position as the dominant world power? But look at the means employed. They all involve military efforts. Then we work on the hearts and minds. Iraq has proved the folly of this way of thinking.
I reality we needed to secure the oil in Iraq's northern fields. It is not only an insurance account but it gives us leverage as the controller of a large part of known reserves. Mostly it keeps Chinese and other Asian hands out of the mix. If we can deny China the energy resources they require to modernize they will never achieve parity with the West. Certainly not military parity.
We are being lied to on a daily basis about our intentions in Iraq. They did not build huge permanent bases there with the idea of this being a short term effort. In reality Iraq is only the beginning of the neo-con dream, or nightmare...
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donald511 year, 8 months ago
...don't forget the more forceful claim of you not being patriotic or wanting the terrorists to win if you don't support his policies.
Look at the people they (Dubya and his repug spin machine including Fox Faux facts) have slandered who have disagreed with them besides Joe Wilson: Kofi Annon (called Dubya a war criminal), the Dixie Chicks, El Baridei (tubes not for nuc dev), Tom Daschle (went into his state to defeat him), Maj Ritter (UN inspector who said Dubya lied on WMD), Richard Clark (his book says Dubya demoted him, did nothing against terror until 911 and right after 911 Dubya wanted links to Iraq), O'Neill (Dubya sleeps through his staff meetings, Cheney in Charge, Iraq on the plate from the start), Brown after Katrina (politics to decide katrina relief support), the fired former head of the US Civil Rights Commision for investigating Florida voting anomalies in 2001, the fired financial advisor to the Bush cabinet who said the Iraq war would cost 150 billion, ...
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BhaktaRajPrabhu1 year, 8 months ago
Thanx for the clarity, Spadecaller! Stupidity is not the issue here: greed is.
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topperjax1 year, 8 months ago
For the first time in my life I can say that I am happy that I was unable to vote in either of the elections that brought Bush/Cheney onboard. Glad to say, they are not my fault. Bush should have been removed sooner, and perhaps by then someone with a head on their shoulders could have come up with a better strategy to end this war.
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neuroticus1 year, 8 months ago
This War is so weird. Who are we even fighting, really? Misguided nationalists, I think, who are probably teenagers or early twenties. People that think they are losing their beloved national identity to 'Crusaders'.
Ok, so let's take away their motivation. Let's remove the Dubya's command of our military, and place our brave troops under a UN/NATO commander (similar to Afghanistan). The Iraqi nationalists will be must less likely to kill an American soldier is s/he is commanded by a UN commander.
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neuroticus1 year, 8 months ago
Also, if the Iraqis do decide to fragment their nation (which is their democratic right to decide) they will most like need buffer zones between themselves, manned by a neutral force (ie not American led). SO many Iraqis are locked into a blood feud, that they really cannot be trusted to coexist as peaceful neighbors.
See Cyprus as what I refer to. Also, see the rocket-lobbing nations of Israel/Lebanon/Palestine as an example of feuding neighbors who desperately need a neutral middleman.
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neuroticus1 year, 8 months ago
Is the UN ready to lead this type of force? No. This means that revamping the UN should be a top priority to US politicians right now. Unfortunately, it's not even close.
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lfergie8121 year, 8 months ago
He said that he was unable to vote. Whether by age or illness, he did say.
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NelsonR1 year, 8 months ago
Watching President Maliki last evening he was staunch in his conviction that both America and Iran should take their dispute out of his country.
Well, there is our exit strategy.
King George looked at Mr. Maliki's in the eyes and his convictions were confirmed. Mr. Maliki was a man King George could trust.
It's hell when you get bit in the butt numerous times, yet you feel no pain.
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elzorro21621 year, 8 months ago
There is a fine line between determination and stubborn delusion. This president has crossed such a line to the detriment of the very country he was sworn to serve.
Z
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Amazing11 year, 8 months ago
This "president" and his regent, Shotgun Dickie are totally unconcerned with the consequences of their actions. Their driving ambition is to fatten the wallets of Big Oil and the Military Industrial Complex. The finer points of diplomacy escape W and do not concern Shotgun Dickie. Our reputation has been lost to greed and corruption. And if they do ignite a nuclear showdown, Dumbya thinks he'll be safe in Paraguay where there is no extradition treaty. They'll gather with the evangelicals for the Apocolypse and the rest of us be damned.
This bunch of bozos need to be arrested and removed from office by the joint chiefs of staff. Otherwise, Congress must impeach them ASAP.
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sezwho1 year, 8 months ago
Dear President Bush.
Please, all I want is one, just one, good reason why. All you've shown is arrogance, disdain and mistrust in return for my support. But no more Mr. President. The America I know and love will once again have to watch a generation of thousands live a lifetime with battle scars that will never heal. My country will ask them to become invisible like a previous generation of warriors that you and our military don't seem to remember. You are selfishly expecting my children and grandchildren to pay off your Iraqi war which is costing more than a billion dollars a week; much of it lost, stolen, embezzled, or otherwise unaccounted for while you and your cronies turn a blind eye to the greed and corruption of business friends in Iraq. And now Iran. Why? Oil? Freedom? Democracy? Christianity? Wait... you thought you were making an "n" on the original invasion orders and now you have to fix the mistake? Not good enough, but at least you're honest.
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sophie11 year, 8 months ago
Churchill also said he had nothing to offer the British people but "blood, toil, tears, and sweat" when they entered their very dark corridor of history.
Look, the president told us on day one that this war would take several years and would often be fougnt in the shadows. When I look at Iran I see the first Holocaust being denied in order to facilitate a second. This frightens me terribly. Iran has made its intentions krystallnacht clear. We cannot pretend not to see....
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crazy-hand1 year, 8 months ago
Can anyone say "World War III". Madmen in the White House have no conception of consequences, so what the hell! Iran next, then what? While Congress is paralyzed with resolutions and rhetoric, we all go up in radioactive dust. Goodnight and good luck!
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IcCaRus1 year, 8 months ago
next election??
WONT happen!!!
we absolutely WILL attack Iran, and itll be sooner, not later.. watch for a false flag operation (like the Tonkin Gulf charade) to kick it off .... it will get so bad that the bush regime will declare a state of emergency, impose martial law and cancel the next elections...
if you STILL trust our govt, well youre either blind or intellectually challenged.
LOOK at what theyve done... The Patriot Act (sounds good, but READ it) the Military Commissions Act (goodbye habeas and the bill of rights)... unauthorized wiretapping of citizens, an AG who says the Constitution does NOT guarantee ANY specific rights to ANY specific citizen, a Pres who sez HE is the "Decider", and Congress has NO control over him or anything he does.
America looks more like Orwells Airstrip One every day.
Der Fuherer means The Father, anyone know the German for The Decider??
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sophie11 year, 8 months ago
I don't know the German word for decider, but I do believe that Mein Kampf means "my struggle", just like jihad refers to a personal struggle....
Honestly, sometimes by the tone of some of these postings, I wonder if some of you would be disappointed if America were healthy and happy three years from now.... It's bad enough that the president of Iran wants to bring about the apocalypse and the coming of the twelfth Imam. We don't need to join him....
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jordan111 year, 8 months ago
"I guess there were many who thought we were bullying Nazi Germany"...>>>
A disingenuous analogy. One has no similarity to the other.
Z
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snotbucket1 year, 8 months ago
are you as stupid as your last comment? (Locky12)
your brain must be that doughnut hole Bush talks about.
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sophie11 year, 8 months ago
Locky12--
Despite what other posters say, I see plenty of links between today's situation and WWII -- especially the anti-Semitism. It's troubling when you look into it, which I think is why so many people prefer to look for wrongdoing in the wrong places. When you criticize President Bush, you won't be beheaded.
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DefenderofIslam21 year, 8 months ago
There are two other thinktanks involse in this mess that are anti-islamist than they PhD's where proven wrong on all they prefiction about the freedom fighter being defeated by us. While my prefiction are being proven correct and i have no degree at all just know basic history and common sense. First there was no Iraq nation untrill England inverted it after WWI. You cannot take 3 major entic group, many tribal group and two religious group that all hated each other than called then a nation.
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bigdidyo1 year, 8 months ago
And if Maliki doesn't cut off ties? What then? If he does what then? We let Iran do what they want in Iraq? If Maliki cuts ties with them you don't think they will latch on to some other militia to give them strength? WAIT!! Maybe Abadinhajad (sp) will listen to reason.
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NelsonR1 year, 8 months ago
King George has already made a mess of the Middle East. We cannot correct anything including Iran. The sects want to fight and have their own determination concerning the outcome. America under Bush made the mistake, its irreverseable.
Orderly withdrawal. We cannot continue to exhaust our national treasury and the lives of Americans in a futile attempt to be the moral authority and policemen of the world. What has it got us. The world despises us, referring to us as the ugly american. Enough is enough.
King George's policies have been a detriment to world peace.
American's I believe are arriving at the same conclusion.
Now its time for our representatives to grow some courage and challenge his air of supremacy and reigning monarchy allusion towards American lives.
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snotbucket1 year, 8 months ago
Exhausting our national treasury is what the teriorist plan to do. thanks for playing right into thier hand king george,
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socialclimbr1 year, 8 months ago
I having been reading a lot of speculation about military action being taken against Iran. It seems the Iranian leaders are not going to stand for bullying and threats. What do you think will happen? Do you think Bush and his people will take action against Iran? It's something that really scares me. It is something I would like to hear educated, intelligent opinions about. What do you think?
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sophie11 year, 8 months ago
I have five grandchildren whom I love more than life itself and I'm past the age for posturing. Here's what I think: I believe that evil exists and that often this world is held hostage to it. CS Lewis once compared it to living in enemy-occupied territory and that going to church was like being part of an underground movement listening in to dispatches from the other side.
I also believe that the Jewish people ARE God's chosen -- but that doesn't compare to being mom's favorite. I think that being God's chosen is a tremendous burden that the Jewish people have borne with grace. It means being subjected to a crucible of tribulation. It means standing alone in the face of almost supernatural hatred. When I look at Israel today, I see David standing up against Goliath. The majority of Americans are Christian. That means the Jews are our older brothers. We must stand by them. But since the Muslims trace their ancestry back to Abraham (like we do) that makes them our cousins.
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truthiness1 year, 8 months ago
trusting to escape scrutiny, by fixing the public gaze upon the exceeding brightness of military glory-that attractive rainbow, that rises in showers of blood- that serpent's eye, that charms to destroy-he plunged into war.
Rep. Abraham Lincoln (r) Illinois
commenting on Pres. Polk launching an uprovoked attack on Mexico.
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truthiness1 year, 8 months ago
no one wanted to leave SE asia for fear it would decline into worse chaos- not until after they forced us out did it become stable.
I can't believe that no one in the gov't or military is awar of this historical fact.
I can believe they are aware of what Eisenhower warned us about - that the military industrial complex was a danger to American civilians do to its need to sustain itself by perpetuating war.
In fact, this was the reason George Washington suggested we not have a standing army in his farewell adress.
He also told us not to have political parties because there would be too much jealousy, infighting, and mixed loyalties
but what did he know-he was just the father of our country.
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thegallowsjudge1 year, 8 months ago
Sadly, many of my fellow Americans have their heads buried in the sand. The mission to remove the butcher of Bagdad was the right one. Dafur anyone? If the overall mission to bring democracy and peace to the middle east, thereby removing the breeding ground of terrorism, fails, then we better hunker down for a long and bloddy generational war with the Jihadists. Jihadists have declared war on us, remember 9-11? Don't blame Clinton or Bush. We just can't wrap our mind around such hatred. Iranian Jihadist leadership, chanting "Death to America" since 1979, have declared their virulent antisemitism and anti-Americanism again and again. America is the great satan and Israel is the little satan. While we continue to navel gaze and the Jihadists continue to plan more terror, Israel may have to risk all out war with Iran to survive. Lastly, as a green hawk politically - we must turn away from oil if we ever hope to win the Jihadist war against us and save our planet.
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blinkers1 year, 8 months ago
Apart from the concluding sentence, this is such a mish-mash of misunderstandings.
The Jihadist war against the West has its roots in an extreme interpration of a branch of Sunni Islam. Iranian Shia Muslims have little to do with this, even Iranian-supported Hezbollah in the Lebanon has disavowed Al Qua-ida anti-West terrorist techniques. (How many Iranians were involved in 9-11?) The Tehran government had little sympathy for the Jihad-supporting Taliban, currently on the rise in Afghanistan, without Iranian assistance.
The removal of Saddam the Butcher, a triumph of precision American military strategy, has revealed the appalling schism within Islam and US forces are now trapped in a mounting civil war.
But Iran is not Iraq, the contexts are entirely different, and Ahmadinejad is not a Saddam Hussein. The increasingly unpopular Iranian PM will be gone at the next election. US policy on Iran should be to stay the course -- by staying out.
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Hatt11 year, 8 months ago
At least someone gets it. Sorry to break it to you guys, but Bush did not cause the hatred that already existed there and there is absolutely no way he could have made them hate us more, it was already at its apex.
Bullying Iran? I'm sorry, but when we haven't shot one missile into their country but they send their bomb expertise to kill us you gotta wonder who is bullying who?
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AmpLee1 year, 8 months ago
((Bush did not cause the hatred that already existed there))
Nah, he didn't cause it, or the Sunni/Shia strife, him and 'his' just ignored it, in arrogance, delusion or both.
Like willfull children, they did what they wanted to do and damn the consequences.
From what I understand, like a street fight, the first step is the gum-flappin', and I've heard some from Bush. On NPR he said, that if iran continues to cause strife and harm to americans in Iraq, 'the US will respond firmly'.
That doesn't sound like a 'mouth for peace' to me.
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Hatt11 year, 8 months ago
Ok, I can get the disagreement about going in the first place, I'll allow that. But I have to disagree about "the US will respond firmly" as being some kind of over aggressive whatever. Iran is killing Americans. They are doing it. Maybe I am simple or old fashioned, but when someone kills your husband or kids, I don't think you "talk it out" with them. BTW they have been killing us for years directly and indirectly. It sort of is overdue. I don't believe that to be hawkish, I just can't follow the logic of saying, "hey, there is Iran killing some of our guys again and we aren't going to do anything about it for 30 years."
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Hatt11 year, 8 months ago
I hardly believe SE Asia "Stabilized" after we left. Ever heard of the "Killing Fields??"
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blinkers1 year, 8 months ago
True Hatt1, both Laos and Cambodia became hardline Communist states, the latter characterized by atrocious genocide, while from a unified Vietnam the "boat people" problem plagued the region (and beyond) for years after and a war-weary population suffered considerable hardship under a socialist dictatorship.
But the "domino theory" stopped there. Thailand remained free, as did Malaysia, and within a decade-and-a-half, the cold war ended with the dissolution of the Soviet Union -- so where was the US to find its next adversary?
I ask you.
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