The New Americanism: "Some" Freedom »
Posted by: TheVisionary 1 year, 5 months ago108 Comments Report this Story
"Look, pal, we've always known-the Framers knew-that liberty is a fragile thing." Just how fragile? Think about all the sophisticated forms of governments and empires whose histories have proven America's to be infantile in comparison. When our liberties are limited to protect liberty itself, and self-destructing paradox begins.
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kobzikov1 year, 5 months ago
"For the first time I have nothing to say, it's already been said in this well written article."
I find that strange.
How about saying let's insure this never happens again? Let's institute some kind of recourse if the government tries to ignore or override the founding principles of Constitution once again? How about let's make it more difficult for federal government to repeat the offense?
Or how about: this is a good start, now let's make sure that all government agencies comply with it? Or let's force CIA to define torture and stop using all interrogation techniques that fit the definition? Let's make all agencies accountable to violations of Constitutional rights, international human rights law and Geneva Conventions?
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berkeley1 year, 5 months ago
the rule of law is very fragile. it takes many years of effort by countless people.
alberto gonzales is currently the leading force to destroy it, although many others, including janet reno, have helped him. making things worse, the present supreme court justices have no sense of history.
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LeftTurn1 year, 5 months ago
Berkeley,
I just read this article, and it seems to follow the article here, your post, and followed by the title, should be a good Sunday evening twist...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8LH6KHG1&
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berkeley1 year, 5 months ago
thanks for the link. reno pushed H.R. 97, the Rapid Deployment Strike Force Act in 1995. and for too much detail, check out:
http://www.constitution.org/ocbpt/ocbpt.htm
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Amazing11 year, 5 months ago
ETproductions is right. Overturning the MCA is a must do. We, as a people cannot allow this to stand.
And Gonzo needs to be GONE. Except, I shudder to think who the Bush would choose to succeed him. Surely he wouldn't nominate Harriet would he?
This entire administration would be a laugh riot if it were not so very tragic. I hope this proposed bill passes.
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Beau78901 year, 5 months ago
Yes, Gonzales needs to go, as he does little to enforce the rule of law; he only rationalizes the administration's agenda at every turn. And yes, there is no doubt Bush would nominate another who would do exactly the same, if the Attorney General's post was vacant.
But the Senate must confirm any of Bush's nominations to the Cabinet, and the Senate has at least begun to resist the idea that the president should do whatever he feels is necessary to combat terrorism, even at the expense of constitutional protections and liberties. And, of course, the Republican majority is gone. It would be interesting to see if senators would finally have a bit of backbone to support the Constitution and to reject a nominee who would twist legal arguments to support the president, rather than one who would actually do what the Attorney General is supposed to do (i.e., protect the Constitution and enforce the law).
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samsara151 year, 5 months ago
The MCA is a disgrace to our nation. If it were not for the tide of hysteria engendered by the administration's anti-terrorism demagoguerory, it would have never been accepted. Both parties share in the shame.
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braveone1 year, 5 months ago
"Look, pal, we've always known-the Framers knew-that liberty is a fragile thing."
well ain't that a load of bull,
Liberty is as tough as the folks in uniform defending it,
and if you think that ain't tough, spit in their eye,
they'll show you how tough that is.
as far as whining about the enemy combatants, terrorists, etc,
thet's your first amendment right, as long as it's not treasonous.
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cherev1 year, 5 months ago
"as long as it's not treasonous"
I think you need to define treasonous. Most of the "Americans" on this thread seem to care more about the terrorists than they do American citizens. They definitely care more about them than our country's leaders.
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braveone1 year, 5 months ago
treason,
The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
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tomboy5011 year, 5 months ago
Under the MCA - as it stands - you could become an unlawful enemy combatant for contributing a small amount of money to a charity on a suspected "terrorist" government list....and then summarily denied your right of habeus corpus (for starters).
As an American citizen...you should be outraged by this. "Restoring the Constitution Act of 2007" is exactly that. Basics.
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Beau78901 year, 5 months ago
No, cherev, most Americans on this thread care more about CITIZENS--that's why they defend the constitutional protections afforded those citizens. You, on the other hand, seem to care more about killing and capturing terrorists--even if innocents, including American citizens, get swept up in the mix, than in preserving the American way. And by American way, I mean the liberties and protections set out by the founders to avoid exactly those erosions of basic rights you advocate in the name of "security."
And as far as our country's "leaders," I wonder if you were a North Korean citizen, you'd make that same statement--leaders can be wrong, and there's nothing anti-American about saying so. (I'm guessing you thought so during the Carter and Clinton administrations.)
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Leemck021 year, 5 months ago
Our country is a Republic and the people are the leaders. Our representatives, including the one who is the head of the executive branch might be a decicer, but that has to stay in the famework of the constitution. This Leader stuff can get confused with dictator and usher in practices that are Un-American as well as unconstitutional. America stands for something and the People are the deciders. Our leaders, no, our elected officials. As far as stuff like contributing to lists, make sure the lists are known as such so some American don't stumble into something unexpected. It is so good to see the debates again, in the messy democratic way. I remember when it was just a slam dunk to step on the American People's will, just a few months ago.
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NelsonR1 year, 5 months ago
Cherev - Thats an imbecile statement, excuse me for being blunt. I will assume you are a conservative hawk. I have news for you, we American humans who disavow this aggressive war is as much of a patriot as you perceive yourself to be.
Having American soldiers die in an unwinnable and aggressor war is a subject that dissent is not only needed but required. What makes a patriot, whether you are a conservative patriot or liberal patriot you are an American with the right of deciding which choice you perceive is right for America. My own perception, look how the world thinks of us today, it is one of a nation that is antagonistic and wishing to dominate the thinking of those in the world. The "Ugly American" scenario prevails due to the hawkish views of those conservatives within America.
You conservatives are followers of your idols, the corporate and political elite within America who dictate your every move and thought.
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jordan111 year, 5 months ago
Liberty is as tough as the folks in uniform defending it,>>>>>
I'm afraid it's not as simple as brute force. The biggest fear the framers had was an enemy within, not a force from without. That was their reasoning for having three branches of government...to keep an eye on one another. They also cautioned citizens of their responsibility to keep an eye on those they elect. This administration & the last Congress has threatened freedom more than any other, and now that they've lost the Congress, the administration is working on subverting the judiciary, headed by Gonzales.
I realize it's easy to think in terms of macho gun fights at the OK corral, but it's time you do the hard work of critical thinking, analysis, and putting forth some effort to protect your country; from within.
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Leemck021 year, 5 months ago
Jordan11 I hear you but also remember the folks in uniform are subject to a civilian rule, that is the people vote a civilian to head the military. Remember the stir with Herbert Bush who wanted to break the law, seeking authorized means to have the U.S. military control crowds, ignoring posse non grata; the military is not allowed to go after The People. We have governors with national guard for that. Liberty and freedom will last if The People are vigilant and keep reigns on representatives sent to do our work, no rubber stamps. They should be thinking about our freedom and liberty and less about control. Common good and national defense, I am convinced are possible without oppression of rights, usually accompanied by fear mongering, like the terrorist are coming to your house tomorrow. Smart people can get the job done. It is said that if you give some people a hammer, everybody start to look like nails. You don't want your children nailed.
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Natureboy1 year, 5 months ago
Yeah, Nazi Germany had some TOUGH guys in uniform, and they were the epitomy of liberty!
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bobo-in-texas1 year, 5 months ago
So, you think that the members of our armed forces are Nazi's? How clever and patriotic of you.
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Jaydee401 year, 5 months ago
In a democracy it's the people who defend Liberty, not the army. It's funny how in a country that believes it gave the world freedom they were so close to loosing it. I have noticed a change in tone lately as more Americans are realizing just how corrupt their government has become.
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johnnydangerously1 year, 5 months ago
all i have to say is read '1984'.........soon Big brother will be watching us like never b4 ...i love my america ,but hate what its turning into ,the ppl are still just and good,its who were electing to lead us thats the real problem.just watch the eletorial ads they run on each other ,they never tell u what there going to do for us or the country ,instead all they do is tell u how bad the other guy is ..WTF?? we need to send a message and tell these pompus asses that we need real leadership whos going fight for americans not with them and take away all the things our grandparents and fellow americans fought so hard to protect..with a wave of his magic pen Bush is single handedly taking away hundreds of years of progress weve made in freedoms name...all these new laws are unconstitutional ..the Patriot Act can be invoked whenever they feel they need to ,to circumvent our constitutional rights and the MCA is another of these,and sadly to say that b4 Bush leaves we will see more.
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SamMyam1 year, 5 months ago
Not paranoid in the slightest, and yes, you presently sound high, but it's mostly due to excessive pride and silliness; the substances that addle your brain are not foreign. Orwell's fiction is an exact and accurate prediction of the rise of the government of Dubya and Cheney. Any imbecile can see that, if they open their eyes. In other words, there's hope, if scant, for you yet. Cast off the scales and see.
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Candida1 year, 5 months ago
johnnydangerously: "all i have to say is read '1984'"
Good idea, and while you are at it, read Franz Kafka's Trial as well. It will give an insight into an insane judicial system, and might shed some light on how a newly designated "enemy combatant" feels.
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jordan111 year, 5 months ago
The MCA is a disgrace to our nation. If it were not for the tide of hysteria engendered by the administration's anti-terrorism demagoguerory, it would have never been accepted. Both parties share in the shame.>>>>
You're right, and well said. I'd have given you a 'good' vote, but accidently blocked you a while back.
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mntnman4441 year, 5 months ago
On the news this morning,more big brother tactics.The federal govt (D.O.T.)wants to put GPS tracking devices on all vehicles so they can monitor how many miles a car is driven and tax the owner per mile.The report raised concerns about the inclusion of destinations as well as miles travelled.
Why dont they just save themselves some time and just surgically implant the tracking devices into our bodies...we dont own our bodies anyway.
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braveone1 year, 5 months ago
mntnman, I own my body, and my soul,
you been making deals you are regretting?
gps tracking is alive and well in the world.
mostly voluntary, some covert, not worried about the tech.
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tehranchik1 year, 5 months ago
The only thing you really have is your mind and they can take that away to, Just ask Jose Padilla.
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Itsmybank1 year, 5 months ago
This bill can never pass. That would be like putting the noose around thier own neck. How many in the congress are guilty, if not of treason; then I think sedition may fit.
I would love for this to pass. It would mean honest money. Taxation by representation (it is the law). A real revolution. Just think what would happen to the lobbiest? Pork barrel spending?
No it can never pass. But we can dream can't we
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TheVisionary1 year, 5 months ago
I assume in the second part, since you didn't clarify, you're talking about the Restoring the Constitution Act of 2007 mentioned in the article.
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truthiness1 year, 5 months ago
ive said it before, I'll say it again and again
the citizens of this country need to stop pointing out what the problems are and take action.
we need a constitutional convention focused on passing a bill of amendmends to reform the power of the federal government.
ex. the creation of a fourth branch of govt, apointed by SCOTUS and approved by the state governors, who has the auhtority to watch over the other 3 branches for criminal/ethical violations and can appoint special prosecutors when violations are discovered.
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WCFIELDS1 year, 5 months ago
I do guess that Farmers would know a lot about "Liberty". They always say you can easily fool a College perfesser but very seldom a farmer. It was real smart to let the Farmers make up that Statue of Limitations and amendments and all that.
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SamMyam1 year, 5 months ago
The Warren Court was effective in many ways despite its alleged head, a partisan Republican politician with blood on his hands.
But I agree with the thrust of your post: This nation has always had s shaky claim to guaranteeing anyone's freedom, and it's always been laughable when these morons claim, without any backing data, that it's the "free-est and bestest country ever on earth..."
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flyonthewallzz1 year, 5 months ago
Hello Braveone and mntnman444
Little green arrow not working, wanted to respond to earlier thread.
If they do require GPS in all cars they would not only know where we have been, but also how fast were going. Wow instant speeding fines. If they let the insurance companies Sub it out they could adjust our rates based on how often we speeded,
I imagine that even if speeding does not cause an accident, it at least makes the damages worse.
Think how much safer we would be!
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flyonthewallzz1 year, 5 months ago
The insurance companies do not have to swear a silly little oath. They have already filled in critical roles in our lives. They get the big discounts for healthcare costs and take back a good piece of what they pay out to the doctors in malpractice insurance.
They can require random drug testing. (I have had to go places to pee in a cup in a bathroom with the water turned off.)
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