Politics – President Bush said Saturday that a Democratic plan to set an end date for the war gives "our enemies the victory they desperately want."
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At Bush's invitation, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi are due at the White House on Wednesday to discuss the war, particularly a bill funding the military mission through September.
In both the House and Senate, Democrats have attached timelines for withdrawing troops to the bill containing $96 billion in military funding.
Bush says the meeting will be about his nonnegotiable stance on a timeline.
"Instead of approving this funding, Democrats in Congress have spent the past 68 days pushing legislation that would undercut our troops," he said in his weekly radio address. "They passed bills that would impose restrictions on our military commanders and set an arbitrary date for withdrawal from Iraq, giving our enemies the victory they desperately want."
Is this guy for real? He should know by now that the American people are not feeding into his crap anymore...we want the troops out of there, if he wants our money he will have to abide by our rules.
The sad part is that President Bush is correct. Any timeline to force the U.S. out by any bill by the Democrats will cause more deaths and is actually giving the terrorists enough will to hang in there, tough it out, and beat the infedels. Victory for Allah, death to Americans. Any idiot ought to be able to figrue that one out. Many of the soldiers who will die are also Democrats. You aren't just punishing Bush...you are killing your own soldiers, and they will have died in vain. Of course most of these offering these protests have no children serving in the military. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback when you don't play in the game. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are politicians, nothing more. Right now we need patriots, both Democrat and Republican...they are the enemy, and the terrorists are coming from Iran, Syria, and Jordan, not Iraq. Without us you also execute the rest of Iraq and Afghanistan, except those who are sympathizers to the Muslim terrorists.
it might be of help if you are Bush would tell the American People what it is we are trying to win? If we should when, what is it that we have won?? Could it be the right to feed another nation like we are feeding Mexico. If so No Thanks.
Don't be like GW tell us what we will win.
we need to show the islmic fundmentlist thet no matter how often or how long they attack we will stop them,and we will be there to stop them.its not so much what our goal is as it what their goal is.all they have to do is drive us out to win.
That's an easy question.
-We will win the right to gather our oil that has somehow gotten stuck unred Iraq.
-We will win BIG contracts for Hallibuten et al to build our permanent military bases
-We will win the right to run an oil pipeline through Afghanistan
-We will be able to close our eyes to the terrorists that live in other parts of the world since this is a highly selectiuve "war on terror" that only involved thos in the Middle East.
I think it might help too. Why he just won't go on TV and explain the surge and the money needed. Is he saving his TV time for something else?
Nobody really likes the war. Logicaly and stategically speaking telling your enemy who you are OBVIOUSLY still fighting when your going to pull out is probably a no-no.
If you won't do that in basketball or baseball, why on God's green Earth would you do it in a war?
the problem is if he dose go out there anything he says for a half an hr will get followed up with 50hrs streight of how we cant beacuse its too hard
>>Any timeline to force the U.S. out by any bill by the Democrats will cause more deaths and is actually giving the terrorists enough will to hang in there, tough it out, and beat the infedels. Victory for Allah, death to Americans
All the reports I've heard state that the MAJORITY of those fighting in Iraq are Iraqi's w/only a VERY few from neighboring countries. And if you believe Iraqis would stop fighting an invading & occupying force, no matter how long it took, you're mistaken. How long would YOU fight if an another country was occupying your home & land?
How long? FOREVER.
No mater your resolve, no one cannot outlast the indigenous people.
Randy
Not to be funny or anything... but history says that your answer is wrong.
And if Bush did what he is doing now about 2 years ago, many Iraqies would approave of the war too.... they would still want us out and make sure we don't feel comfortable, but it would not be what it sis today.
Perhaps we can learn fom history. This report provides aggregate data on U.S. assistance to Iraq and compares it with U.S. assistance to Germany and Japan during the seven years following World War II. For Germany, in constant 2005 dollars the United States provided a total of $29.3 billion in assistance from 1946-1952 with 60% in economic grants and nearly 30% in economic loans, and the remainder in military aid. Germany and Japan also are larger than Iraq - both population and size of their respective economies - and the extent of war damage to each country's industrial capacity was different. Iraq also faces an insurgency that deliberately sabotages the economy and reconstruction efforts. U.S. policymakers and occupation planners were skeptical that the Germans and Japanese had the necessary cultural background and psychological disposition for flourishing democracies. As we now know it was possible. The same can be said for Vietnam. Congressional Research Service RL33331
I think in some ways Germany and japan were different. They actually felt defeat. They mentally knew they lost the war. We also were at war with the whole country not a specific part of the population.
I don't know... maybe somehow this will work out. Maybe giving a date will give the insurgants false hope and when the day passes and we are still there, they are caught off guard. Maybe America needs to stop fighting a idea and start fighting the people of the whole state who supports it. I know if a nuke goes off here, it will be the beginning of a very long war with specific countries, not specific people.
Hope? Do you think the insurgents are sitting there going ok I can't wait for the US to leave? They are bombing us now as we speak. If we stay or go it matters not to them they will keep at it until we leave be it now or then. I say either we fight a real war or get to hell out and let them deal with it.
I tould fight Till DEATH,
I love my country; this is why I am against this
administration! I do think I would like Bush if he wasn't in charge of my country but I am sorry I only want the best for our baby America the beautiful, and he isn't.
yes however they are being rilled up and led by iranians and other forgin presons.just as we are getting help from the iraqi people once we gain their trust our true enemies are getting help from indigenous people making by making freedom and demrocracy look bad.something you must understand we are not at war WITH iraq.we are at war IN iraq.iraq is only a battlefeild in the propaganda war we are fighting with islmic fundamentlisim.they say freedom is weak and demrocracy brings division.all they have to do is point to thecongress decision to say "see we were right"
"they are being rilled up and led by iranians and other forgin presons.just as we are getting help from the iraqi people once we gain their trust our true enemies are getting help from indigenous people..."
Do you think maybe having a quarter of a million or more American troops and war contractors setting up stakes in their country while they struggle with 70% unemployment might be why "they are being rilled up"?
not at all .if that were the case the violence would be a little more wide spread.instead it is extremly limited to verry small areas.as for contractors i would have to know wich ones but if it follows the normal oil whines it is problly a twist to an out and out lie.we dont get any oil from iraq and NEVER will.it all goes to other countrys.unemployment would be lower if the contractors were allowed to set up an unmolested shop or two so we can get some real rebuilding going
Indeed. Since our occupation army is too small to cover the whole country, the violence tends to follow us around as we travel around like a traveling circus.
What contractors? Where have you been while we have been complaining about halliburton and their no bid contract that gives us buildings that fall down, tainted water for our troops, unsanitary toilets, etc.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
ohhh sorry i was giving you the bennifet of the doubt.i see i was wrong this IS a haliburton thing.i thought you were a lib with a third brain cell.my bad sorry again
>>ohhh sorry i was giving you the bennifet of the doubt.i see i was wrong this IS a haliburton thing.i thought you were a lib with a third brain cell.my bad sorry again
That's just wrong. Didn't you know that we (that is, Haliburton & our gov't) brought in labor instead of using the indigenous labor? THAT's why unemployment is so high.
Also, our wonderful services can't even repair the electric grid.
>>yes however they are being rilled up and led by iranians and other forgin presons.
No. They're getting riled up by us basically destroying about every part of Iraqi life.
>>we are not at war WITH iraq.we are at war IN iraq.iraq is only a battlefeild in the propaganda war....
And we're losing that propaganda war by destroying that battlefield.
>>we are fighting with islmic fundamentlisim.they say freedom is weak and demrocracy brings division.all they have to do is point to thecongress decision to say "see we were right"
I disagree. They can see that our system can correct mistakes made by that system. If we leave the country and fix our mistakes, the "insurgents" will have no more propaganda to use.
The leadership, funding and weapons for the 'insurgency' comes from Syria and Iran. This is a documented fact. Also, please note the more than 95% of the people being killed by the terrorists in Iraq are not military targets but innocent civilians. The attacks are not focused on an 'occupying army' but on disrupting daily life and playing to the press. The terror leaders have learned that they can play the press to turn the hearts and minds of Americans to try and force a pull out.
If we set an arbitrary date to pull out wether or not the Iraqi gov't and armed forces are ready to fend off the terrorists invites chaos and allows someone like Saddam to take power again.
Two, points of history. 1) It took the US 11 years from the Declaration of Independence to forge the Constitution. Yet we expect a country that has been run by a tyrant for decades to come up with one overnight. 2) The lesson of Vietnam is that when a war gets politicized and troops pulled...innocents die.
(continuing point 2) We not only withdrew troops we failed to deliver material, weapons and funding to South Vietnam that we promised and the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese stormed in. Tens of thousand were killed (as with the typical communist purging) because the politicians in Washington were too busy playing politics instead of doing the right thing. Early in the war we were on the verge of defeating the North Vietnamese and leaving a strong South Vietnam, but then the polticians stepped in and stopped the military from doing it's job. And, what caused this, the unprecendented immediate press coverage of the carnage of war splashed on TV and newspapers everyday.
If WWII was happening today, imagine the people calling for our withdrawal from the war because too many soldiers were dying. It took Pearl Harbor for the US politicians to get off their butts and see we can't hide our heads in the sand. More people got killed on 9/11 and we don't have the guts to protect ourselves.
If "chaos" is in order for this region, it will return whether we pulled out tomorrow, or five years from now. Our presence is only a catalyst.
You brought up Viet Nam and being on the verge of defeating the North Vietnamese. See any stark comparisons?
We're not going to win anything in Iraq. The Iraqi people will be the winners and losers.
As for the death tolls.... last I remembered from 9/11 was 2818(?)... Iraq conflict.. 3297(military deaths). Unless you're counting something I'm not privy too, this argument too has gone down the toilet. Difference being we sent 3297 to their fate.
there is no equating civilans going about their lives dieing in an unprovoked attack to military deaths.how ever if you want to than 1 american civilan being killed in this manner should be too many to allow it to be unanswered.that 1 died is too much.if you want to equate lets talk about unsafe it is to walk the streets of american cities where the death toll in philadelipha is 103 so far this year.thats just the city.how about the surrounds like chester and west chester.what dose it climb to then.where is the outcry to do something.americans are dieing and we dont hear about it.a freind of mine lives in philly ,came in on leave and made the comment he cant wait to go back beacuse it looks the same but over there he is safer.over there he has a flack jacket, backup, and can shoot back.
>>if you want to equate lets talk about unsafe it is to walk the streets of american cities where the death toll in philadelipha is 103 so far this year.thats just the city.how about the surrounds like chester and west chester.what dose it climb to then.where is the outcry to do something
We HAVE been screaming about violence in the US. But the politicians have other priorities - an illegal invasion of Iraq, cutting social programs & job creation funding, giving amazing tax breaks to the richest in this country, tax breaks to oil co's making record profits.
We have been screaming. It's just that the GOP was screaming God, Guns & Gays louder. And raising the terror alert any time their ratings start to slip.
Dave -
Much of the money for the weapons the insurgents have comes from the 12 billion dollars in cash disbursed by the US under the auspices of the Coalition Provisional Authority.
It's likely that some weapons are coming from Iran and Syria, but the arms market out of Brussels is doing a bang up job of arming the insurgents. Chinese weapons too.
It's not as cut and dried as you might think.
Even if we concede point 2, how are we doing any better in Iraq now? Why is it we can get plenty of humvees and pallets of cash over there but we can't get the troops enough IED-resistant vehicles and body armor, which we do make?
I am not interested in funding more of the same. If we are to keep troops there to stabilize the situation we destabilized, let's try giving them the right stuff to actually win or at least create a draw.
Any good commander knows that your strategy is the sum of your tactics, not the other way around. So far our only tactic is to throw more bodies into the pit.
beacuse our boys can win this war,but if we want to win we need them there.the way to win this one is to outlast the fundelmist.we have to tell them that we will never back down.congress just told them we quit
sorry the line was to read "our boys CANT win this war"
>>the way to win this one is to outlast the fundelmist
But we CAN'T outlast them. The longer we stay, the more recruits we give those same "fundamentalists."
It is quite possible that a lot of the people unhappy with the war would be unhappy with defeat. Maybe enough to swing an election - it happened in '72.
Ummm, I believe we were still in Vietnam in '72.
Couldn't have been any of those famous dirty tricks that won Nixon his nickname that helped swing that election, could it?
We were already in the process of withdrawing in 1972. And Nixon was the incumbent. The only question was how fast were we to get out.
No, Nixon was doing everything he could to delay any negotiation toward withdrawal.
Kissinger was working on it. Nixon and other Republicans were saying things that sounded a lot like the things Iraq war supporters say today--that we'd be surrendering, handing the terrorists, I mean Communists, victory, that they'd soon expand to take over surrounding countries, etc.
I was there. We were being pulled out in 1971. It took a long time to complete the withdrawal.
You're right, of course. I looked it up. How long were you there?
"The sad part is that President Bush is correct."
I see...So after being catastrophically wrong multiple times about the war (flowers, liberators, "mission accomplished,"turning corners, last throes, etc) you're convinced Bush is right this time exactly WHY? Please share...
well flowers and liberators was a little off.after being burned in the gulf war they wernt sure if we were here to stay,they were afraid .after a few days you saw what was going on.the statue came down and they and woke up.now in the pacified area (wich is most of iraq)they openly greet our boys with,as corny as it is true,flowers. you dont see it beacuse our lib perss cannot let W have a victory.mission accomplished the first mission was done,the war WITH iraq ended.it was approaite then,the lib press just could not let us have our victory.turning corners and last throes,it was till now.all they have to do is trot out the video footage of dog woman nancy biting her masters hand and show the vote for pull out dates to say "see how weak demrocracy is"
a little off?
easy for you to minimize such a catastrophic misapprehension of the facts on the ground there, Mr. BS.
not at all they had to play it careful beacuse they could not afford to be seen helping the americans till they knew we werent going to leave.they had to know there was no way saddam was coming back.once that happned they did open up.just took a few weeks
hay who the hell is this Watchemoket.do they post any replies or just go around random neg voting
IncaQueen, In my opinion, your theory is flawed. Iraq is mostly a civil war, not terrorism. The only terrorist base there before we invaded existed only due to the protection of our no-fly zone. The majority Shiia, the Kurds and even to an increasing degree the Sunnis are now pursuing al Qaeda with the intention of driving them from their country.
Bush doesn't even know who "the enemy" is. If someone contacted Bush tomorrow and said, bring the surrender treaty and we'll sign, he would have no idea where to take it or what uniform the "enemy" would be wearing.
We may need to keep a forward deployed presence there for a time to prevent al Qaeda from gaining a foothold, but the sooner we let the Iraqis settle their differences the better.
They LIVE there. We don't. They don't need a withdrawal date to inspire them to hang in. It's their country. They aren't going anywhere, and some day, after how many thousand more deaths, we are going to leave.
Good pts.
Insurgents go back to their villages and live for.. let's say five years.. then come out and attack again. Point is, they can go "home" and do their daily routines until we go. Our soldiers go to a base that everyone is aware of, and wait for mortar rounds and rockets to drop in on them while insurgent activity is at zero. (scenario - seems "what if's" are big with the administration, thought I'd try)
The only way the President or his successor can pull of a complete victory in Iraq and Afghanistan is to reinstate the draft and build up our troop strenth to a bout 1.5 - 2.0 million persons. to fight a guerrilla action, you must out number them by about 11 - 1. Read Mao Tse Dongs book on Guerilla Warfare. It is the 'bible' on this topic. Had the President done his due diligence when he was a jet jockey, he would know this. Without more troops we are shooting ourselves in the foot and will be mired down in Iraq for many years. It is not worth the effort.
Our military personal do their jobs and more! Myself and others send them notes, gifts, and packages. This is not a reflection on them but on an Administration that greivously erred by starting something they had no plan to end and now cannot finish.
Thanks, very interesting reading
no you are fighting the wrong war.this is not a war of troops,even though it involves troops,this is a propaganda war.this is a war to find out who is stronger,freedom and demrocracy or islamic mundamentalisim and therocracy.everyone keeps thinking this has no place in the war on terror,but it is central.in order to win this we have to show both sides ,and the neturals who havent decided yet,that we have the patiance to wait them out.there is not going to be a falling of berlin or heroshima moment in this war.it will slowly fade away when they stop getting more recruits.congress vote just gave them material to recuit several thousand more.