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  trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

  The deal came after weeks of painstaking closed-door negotiations that brought the most liberal Democrats and the most conservative Republicans together with Bush's Cabinet officers to produce a highly complex measure that carries heavy political consequences.

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    gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of this issue are the tone of this article is deliberately inflammatory and hysterical. Even the use of the word "scurries" in the title used here can only connote rats. "Invaders" is more applicable to the US in Iraq than it is to poor peasants from a neighbouring country crossing a border illegally. It highlight some disturbing realities but the solutions that it suggests will seemingly only create heat and not light.

    OK - I don't have answers but the tone of this article and the debate that it has elicited is very worrying and alarming to me.

    The US has a highly honourable history as a sanctuary for refugees of all kinds. Its essential to at least DULY CONSIDER what force is impelling people to leave their homeland. Mexico is a marvellous country. Many, many US citizens vacation there. Undoubtedly the majority of Mexicans would MUCH prefer to stay in their homeland but are driven by economic necessity.

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      apondonet1 year, 3 months ago

      Very well said gamahuche. It is amazing how people can willingly abondon reason for vicious emotions. Lack of historical perspective and sometimes, just plain dumbness, make some people so predatory -- so medieval!

      The NAZI Propagandists on this thread are just full of baloney! Here is why -- http://www.politicalarticles.net/blog/2007/05/0...

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        gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

        Thanks!

        I was actually quite afraid of entering the lion's den on this so its great to have a positive..

        Now I'm ready for whatever sh.. may get flung.

        In England there's a saying - Sticks and stones can break your bones but names can never hurt you.

        It works!

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          trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

          There was no namecalling until you arrived. No sh** flinging either. You should actually try reading the letters in between the white spaces. This has been a very civilized thread, bipartisan in case you haven't noticed.

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            gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

            Of course I read the messages and they didn't seem bi-partisan to me! Civilised.. not so much, I'm sorry to say. Quite a lot of comments sounded like a warm-up for a lynching party, but I've never been to one so what would I know about that?

            i also tried to make it clear, and continue to do so, that I have always found you an honourable and decent human being in your posts and I read your posts about your personal experience in LA with attention and respect.

            The article which apondonet flagged is also disturbing - its also inflammatory in its treatment of its topic.

            I have to run for a bus now but will be back later.

            P.S. apondonet didn't say YOU were a Nazi. I don't call anyone a Nazi unless they're paid-up members of a genuine Nazi organisation.

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              apondonet1 year, 3 months ago

              Sometimes you need to wake them up with COLD water -- in the face!

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              gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

              Well I'm back, maybe too late..

              "There was no namecalling until you arrived. No sh** flinging either."

              Nor have I done either.

              My response was a genuine response to the impression that I got from reading the article and the posting and I made it clear that I understood that there was a problem and that I didn't have a solution.

              You stated that there had been a bi-partisan approach.

              Up to the time that I wrote I was very conscious that there had NOT, in terms of the topic..

              There had been no comment in favour of free immigration nor any comment with a positive view of the suggested amnesty.

              I'm not supporting either side in this; it wasn't my intention to do so.

              But SOME regular people must support the current initiative to "regularise" status of a large number of "illegals" or it simply couldn't be on the cards.

              Another point which had not been made at that time was that the unemployment rate right now is very low. So are jobs being "stolen"?

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        trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

        You have a lot of nerve calling me a Nazi. I am a bonafide liberal and you are working my nerve. You don't me, but i can certainly tell you I don't care to know a knee jerk that presumes that anyone who opposes the illegal occupation of his country is anything other than an American.

        I tell you what, exactly how many illegal immigrants do you think IS a good number? Unlimited? Get real? But more importantly, you can go straight to... hello, this is the operator. You're line is out of order!

        Sincerely, look at my f'in profile and then judge me you jerk!

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          apondonet1 year, 3 months ago

          In racism, there is barely a distinction between "Liberal" and "Conservative." The right wing is just usually more vocal about it.

          As for how many immigrants IS a good number -- please read the article referenced above.

          I am not a Jerk and I don't go around snooping at profile(s).

          In this forum, you are judged by what you write. Your emphatic use of words: "Scurry," "Illegals," and "Amnesty" -- clearly supports my thesis that you are just another miserable propagandist with an "Us vs. Them" attitude -- an attitude that rarely accomodates reason.

          If the whole of the United States agreed with people like you -- Tom Tancredo would be the next President, something which will never happen, for the majority of Americans are reasonable and most important -- they can THINK beyond their noses.

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            trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

            It is "us and them". Those who stood in line and abided by the law and those who didn't. I have taught writing courses in the prisons, taught HS in South Cental LA, worked on staff of no less than 5 black major campaigns and in fact am still called uncle by the now grown children of the Chairman of the NAACP.

            If you throw cold water in my face, you get it right back with both parties because in this case, the people are right and the congress is wrong. Our constitution does not say govt. of the world. It says "of the people" and just in case soemone didn't get it, they said "of... and for the people". Thomas Jefferson suggested that if ever was ignored the government best live in fear of its people.

            cont'd

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              trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

              If you study your English, you will see that "scurry" perfectly describes a govt. that has secret meeting and passes legislation without the input of the people; "illegal" describes activities against the law; and "Amnesty" is a word for having sympathy for criminals but apparently contempt for the victims of those crimes.

              As for my profile; that's what it is for, so I have no hidden positions. You see no distinction between Liberal and conservative, because, in the defense of the basic right of national sovereignty, there is none. It is not racism for ME to hate YOU on the basis of your support of crime. That makes you an accomplice and when jury comes back those who support criminals go to prison too.

              It is you sir, who are a racist if you love one more than another. It works both ways. I love people of all nationalities, races and colors. Religions: Well,even they have a right to be wrong, and I would fight to the death to defend those within the law!

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                trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

                And if you want shocking evidence of the murder and crime that comes with the criminals check the well known "liberal" newspaper, the San Francisco Chronicle- http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/... blue&sn=010&sc=456

                It's free education... well 50 cents on the stand and I assume you have paid your phone bill.

                The "Maras" have come into my school and murdered my Principal, sold drugs, gang-raped young ladies, and killed young Americans. When the INS catches them, they send them back to Guatemala and they come back; some up to 6 times before we finally put them in prison.

                I realize most are here to work and they even pay "some" taxes to offset their huge drain on services, but they have broken in line and are CRIMINALS. If you want to redefine the language, start your own country or reform the one you come from. Stand up to your govt. like America did! Don't come here and expect royal treatment.

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                  nahual1 year, 3 months ago

                  Uhm these "Maras" are nothing but extensions of the local, made in the US, gangs that have always been present in the latin and black ghettoes.

                  Are the Maras any more violent than the Crypts and the Bloods? both notorious black gangs known for their violent behavior, perpetraded mostly against their own black communities.

                  And the chicano gangs, 18thStreet, 13th Street and others have always been present in latino ghettoes.In NYC the Puerto Ricans have also had their own gangs for generations.

                  YOUR insinuation that these "Maras" are strickly a result of the undocumented infiltration are FALSE and inflamatory. The maras are simply the extension of already existing and US bred gangs both present in black and hispanic communities long before the undocumented arrived.

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                    trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

                    Before you doubt a professional journalist, know this we stand by our facts and live by the irreproachablilty. I don't "insinuate" anything. If you are simply going to ignore the facts, then be prepared to be ignored. I have seen these gangs, and interviewed them personally as they claimed responsibility for murdering Black HS Principle Gary Beverly in Lynwoood, CA.

                    The Maras and their allies consistently are deported and eventually return to be deported as many a six times before we finally imprison them-FACT. As for the US bred traitors and murderers, if they are citizens or not, they are criminal accomplices and serve a nation other than the US, punishable by death in Federal court.

                    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/...

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                gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

                "Amnesty" is a word for having sympathy for criminals but apparently contempt for the victims of those crimes."

                Sorry! This is a very slanted definition.

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              apondonet1 year, 3 months ago

              "trnscndr" -- I get very suspicious when a white man starts prophesizing that he has "two" black friends. It's a patented reaction of a xenophobe.

              HERE ARE SOME POINTERS

              It seems very few have learned anything from History:

              Every wave of immigration into the United States has faced fear and hostility, especially during times of economic hardship, political turmoil, or war:

              - In 1882, the Chinese Exclusion Act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_...

              - The "Red Scare" of the 1920s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare

              - In 1942, the Japanese internments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_...

              ALL because of race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership -- We have Bush in office, Go figure!

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            ecotourusa1 year, 3 months ago

            apondonet!

            We the people are f**ked if we allow this bill to go through. In reference to the immigration issue: All that needs to happen, is enforce the laws already in place. simply put.

            it's in our constitution as a sovereign nation to protect our people. there is simply no argument here. We cannot open our doors to everyone. and if you have entered illegally, it only shows your lack of respect for the USA. By the way, have you taken the time to investigate Mexico's immigration laws???

            check them out. and reconnect with reality, DUDE!

            this bill has to die a quiet and sweet DEATH!

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          gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

          Its NOT an illegal occupation!

          It IS inflammatory to call it that.

          It may feel like that to you but an occupation means that the occupying power is in total control of the political, legal and economic power within the country.

          An occupation is like the German occupation of large parts of Europe during the war or the Russian Communist occupation of Eastern Europe from 1948 onwards.

          By no stretch is there an occupation of this kind by illegal - or undocumented immigrants.

          A very plausible case can be made that there has been a neo-con coup in the US but that's not this topic.

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        WickedImpulse1 year, 3 months ago

        Well, when events keep happening like below... its hard not to feel like we're being invaded.

        "You will not see this heart-stopping photo on the front page of the NY Times or on the lead story of the major news networks.

        The protesters put up the Mexican flag over the American flag flying upside down at Montebello High School in California "

        http://www.darktidedispatch.com/flag/flag-1.jpg

        http://www.darktidedispatch.com/flag/flag-2.jpg

        http://www.darktidedispatch.com/flag/flag-3.jpg

        http://www.darktidedispatch.com/flag/flag-4.jpg

        I keep getting similar emails with similar scenes from other venues and it makes me wonder who truly wants to be a citizen.

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          gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

          Has anyone who voted for this post looked at the darktidedispatch website?

          It appears to be a gaming site.

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      trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

      The US never took in immigrants at its current rate before and I am sorry if the truth seems inflammatory. You may consider me in context and you will know I am no enemy of foreigners.

      As for being a sanctuary for illegal aliens, that's simply not true prior to the Reagan amnesty. Now, we are just a magnet, not for the best and brightest, but for the sick and tired. Leprosy is up multi-fold in two years in the US where it had previously been eradicated. If you are going to feel sorry for somebody, try the inner city blacks whose jobs are disappearing and going down in pay.

      This, coming from a liberal inner city educator of 25 years. I have no patience for the incivility and criminality of occupying another country without legal authorization. the only people that benefit are the corporatist wealthy.

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        apondonet1 year, 3 months ago

        You are a "Propaganda Consumer."

        You "eat" the propaganda you hear in the airwaves -- then you regurgitate it here.

        Your "Leprosy" claim was thoroughly debunked as utter falsehood.

        I even watched Mr. Bigot, Lou Dobbs, trip and fall all over his CNN set when confronted with solid facts.

        I repeat:

        Your firm stand â;; "depot them all," "we are a nation of laws" â;; is just a smokescreen for â;; "we wish this good old USA was 100% lily white." - a convenient tool for extortion.

        The same crap was inflicted upon blacks, Chinese, Japanese and now Mexican & other immigrants, & guess what -- America is still strong and getting stronger.

        This is an issue for the SANE to solve, & not the INSANE like you.

        I applaud the Senate for taking a bold first step.

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        gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

        "Now, we are just a magnet, not for the best and brightest, but for the sick and tired. Leprosy is up multi-fold in two years in the US where it had previously been eradicated."

        Evidence of "being a magnet for the sick and tired" - apart from you being sick and tired of something..?

        Leprosy? From eradicated to multifold could mean 1 case. Evidence that it came from "illegals"?

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      gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

      PS..

      Isn't the REAL question that fires the heated feelings about this topic:

      What happened to the America Dream?

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        trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

        Gama, read the whole thread and get educated please. The American dream is for those who play by the rules. WE are a nation of laws! I have personally helped over two hundred people fill out their immigration paperwork. You are out of line!

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          gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

          It was a question, not an opinion.

          Its true that it was based on a perception that the US polity has been so seriously damaged by 9/11 and also scandals like the Enron affair, healthcare costs and other causes that the American Dream has been lost for a very large number of people.

          My question was whether the response to the current "illegals" topic was influenced by that.

          I'm not sure why you think that means that I'm out of line or need to get educated.

          In general I'm a big believer in more light & less heat in debate. Not because I don't myself feel passionate about many topics but because the boundary between heat and rage is frequently narrow and ill-defined.

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    KingOfTruth1 year, 3 months ago

    trnscndr:

    The deal came after weeks of painstaking closed-door negotiations that brought the most liberal Democrats and the most conservative Republicans together with Bush...

    Bull Pucky....it's an insane plan....no conservatives had anything to do with it....RINOS only....

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      ecotourusa1 year, 3 months ago

      KOT-

      there were conservatives working on this bill as well. and, the only candidates stepping up to the plate on this issue happen to be conservatives. They are: duncan hunter, tom tancredo, mitt romney, and I like dr. ron paul's attitude. i'm watching these candidates closely. i will choose the one who will deal with the immigration issue productively in the best interest of the established american citizenry. be it left or right!

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    ABANOCLA1 year, 3 months ago

    HARSH, YOU SAY ???

    1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special ballots for elections, and all government business will be conducted in our language.

    2. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote, no matter how long they are here.

    3. Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.

    4. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, nor any other government assistance programs.

    5. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount equal to

    40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

    6. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT options will be restricted. You are not allowed to own waterfront property. That property is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

    7. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. If you do you will be sent home.

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      ABANOCLA1 year, 3 months ago

      8. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down and sent straight to jail.

      Harsh, you say?...

      The above laws happen to be the immigration laws of " MEXICO " !!

      Good enuf for them, good enuf for me, try going to Mexico, and getting free medical care at the emergency room, or welfare, or prenatal care, or anything else, it isn't going to happen.

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        trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

        AB-That was quite a powerful point.

        I am frankly sick of people coming here thinking that, after breaking the law to get, they can expect the law to protect them. They have NO rights, nor should they; a free bus ticket the first time, and prison the next, despite the expense. I am tired of seeing my country degraded by arrogant criminals who twist our laws, then break them. They don't quite understand that, OUR poor black, white and other colors, ARE citizens and must be protected from those who are not.

        When foreign agents come here, organize, and kill our people, it's called war and they haven't seen the tip of the iceberg if they think it will be tolerated any longer by either party! The people of America, born here or by immigration, are offended that you think anyone deserves a shortcut via crime!

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      ecotourusa1 year, 3 months ago

      AB-

      Thank you for posting this! people need to understand that the new immigration bill opens our doors to an invasion. and mexicans aren't the only ones coming in...our enemies are here amongst us now. and more need to be stopped from entering!

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    NoSpinDave1 year, 3 months ago

    the people who are truly screwed by all this are the LEGAL immigrants who have gone about getting their citizenship the CORRECT way.

    My wife is from South America, she did everything the right way from the beginning. She filed all the right paperwork (which required her to hire a lawyer), she paid all the fees, she waited the years of time going through the process. Now she finds out if she would have just acted like a criminal and snuck in ..bamm...amnesty.

    Its such a raw deal for her and others like her its not even funny.

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      Shadowolf1 year, 3 months ago

      On this one David; we are in 100% agreement...don't faint now!!!

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      gamahuche1 year, 3 months ago

      Why is doing the right thing a "raw deal"?

      Are you suggesting that now she wishes she had snuck in?

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        NoSpinDave1 year, 3 months ago

        its a raw deal that people that are doing it the right way get punished and people that do it wht wrong way get rewarded.

        And no, she wants to do it the right way.

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    Shadowolf1 year, 3 months ago

    Anytime these bozos go behind closed doors, America gets screwed!!!

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  trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

  We are being ignored and there is a conspiracy to force us to become a feudal nation of low income and standard of living.

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    loquaciousrana1 year, 3 months ago

    The US has always had low income areas. Some counties of Mississippi have housing on par with many third world countries and that was over 25 years ago before illegal immigrants even found the state. The saying in Arkansas used to be "Thank God for Mississippi!" because they were ranked the second poorest state in the country. Get off your high horse. Americans shot themselves in the foot when they started thinking that certain jobs were beneath them.

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      trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

      My God. I have been waiting to hear from La. I can't believe that poor people there and in Mississippi (see I can spell)would tolerate the BS that has come down the pike regarding this issue. I KNOW there are people that need jobs and the govt. is hiding the truth.

      The problem is not that Americans won't do these jobs; it is that they only pay half what they used to pay as a result of illegal immigration.

      BTW, the H-1Bs have been used to do the same to middle income jobs as well. Watch out if you ONLY make 50K this year. Illegal immigration will push you down to 30K before long!

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      zaph221 year, 3 months ago

      I don't think that is exactly true, I just found this in another immigration story here..."Cesar Damian Solis, who earns up to $600 a month laying bricks and pipe in Phoenix"???

      and they say they come to do jobs Americans won't do? from this I'd say there are a lot of Americans that would be more than willing to lay brick and/or pipe. I just don't think an American would want to do it for $3.75 an hour, which is what $600 averages out to for four 40 hour weeks a month, no wonder they say an American won't do that job, for that much under minimum wage, but I'm sure even at minimum wage a lot of people here legally would do that job

      Now tell me again that no American would want to be a bricklayer, or pipefitter, but maybe it's because this illegal alien will do the job for 3.75 an hour and there is an American employer that is willing to break the law themself that is the problem here

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        Frankenmacer1 year, 3 months ago

        Ummm...it's ILLEGAL to pay someone $3.75/hr in the USA. Look up the minimum wage law some time. This is why illegal immigration takes jobs from Americans because they come over and work for less money than what the law requires. If those illegals weren't here those businesses would have to hire Americans at a higher rate of pay.

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          zaph221 year, 3 months ago

          Exactly my point.

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          nahual1 year, 3 months ago

          Well, who are the real criminals here? The US greedy business owners who hire the undocumented and exploit them or the undocumented who have to bite the bullet and accept the exploitation in order to survive?

          Easy enough is to blame the worker for accepting slave like working conditions while the employer violates Federal Laws and goes unpunished.

          Ever hear of factories being shut down because they employ undocumented aliens? NO, the employers get off , the arrested aliens get deported and the next day the employer hires another bunch of undocumented to continue exploting them.

          I dont hear anybody demanding that factories that employ undocumented aliens be shut down and their owners imprisoned for violating Federal Laws, oh no, let us beat up the illegals...they are the problem not the greedy US business owners ripping off these people.

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            zaph221 year, 3 months ago

            well if you haven't heard anyone talking about punishing these employers too there can only be one reason, you aren't listening. I know on my threads on this subject I've mentioned what I think should be done to the employers of the illegals. And to answer the question "Well, who are the real criminals here?" Easy, BOTH! The employer for hiring and illegal immigrant, and the illegal for being here to accept the job

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    Shadowolf1 year, 3 months ago

    Trncndr;

    First, the Multinational corporations move offices offshore to avoid taxes.

    Then they start buying political prostitutes to remove the safetys that protect American workers.

    Then they start outsourcing jobs wholesale.

    Now they are promoting and supporting wholesale illegal immigrants to compete for the jobs that remain at much lower wages.

    This is NOT competition with the middle class...

    this is the EXTERMINATION of the middle class...

    All according to the PNAC playbook...the Bible of the NeoCons.

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  blothbelt1 year, 3 months ago

  I love my foreign friends, and I don't blame people for wanting to break the law, especially when it is so tempting. It has become a highway without any patrolmen. Of course, people will speed. In this case they sped across the border, into American jobs, to the head of the line, ahead of those who have played by the rules. It's bullsh!t!

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    PaganGodess1 year, 3 months ago

    "...I don't blame people for wanting to break the law, especially when it is so tempting."

    Yeah, murder is tempting too especially when I'm sitting in traffic but I can exercise some self control in that area because it comes with consequences. If you come over here illegally there ought to be consequences to that action as well!

    These illegals that come over here just don't give a damn because nothing happens. They squeeze out a couple of puppies and wham! They become legal. NICE!

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      trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

      The children are citizens until the laws are changed that is. Te parents are not. And if they are arrested for a crime and the result is separation the parents have no one to blame but themselves. If I rob a bank, I go to jail and my children don't see me for a while, simple fact.

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        PaganGodess1 year, 3 months ago

        I agree trnscndr! I thought the parents automatically became citizens because of a minor child?

        I've gotten a real up close personal look at illegal immigration and the benefits it seems to reap on the illegal at the expense of the American taxpayer! I'm not happy! We have not invented enough curse words to even begin to cheer me up about this either!

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        KingOfTruth1 year, 3 months ago

        trnscndr:

        The children are citizens ....

        No they are not.

        Scholars look to the legal traditions observed by most courts, including the presumption that all words used in a legislation are intended to have meaning and that, if the meaning of a word or phrase is unclear or ambiguous, the congressional debate over the legislation may indicate the authors' intent. These scholars therefore presume that "subject to the jurisdiction" means something different from "born in the United States," so they have looked to the original Senate debate over the Fourteenth Amendment to determine its meaning. They conclude that the authors of the Fourteenth Amendment did NOT want to grant citizenship to every person who happened to be born on U.S. soil.

        In fact, Senator Jacob Merritt Howard of Michigan proposed the addition of the phrase specifically because he wanted to make clear that the simple accident of birth in the United States was not sufficient to justify citizenship.

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          ABANOCLA1 year, 3 months ago

          http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/ObjectID/5365F1...

          U.S. Citizenship by Birth or Through Parents

          You may already be a U.S. citizen and not know it.

          U.S. citizenship can be obtained in one of four ways:

          * birth in the United States or its territories

          * birth to U.S. citizen parents (called "acquisition" of citizenship)

          * naturalization (obtaining citizenship after an application and exam), or

          * naturalization of one's parents (called "derivation" of citizenship).

          Birth in the United States

          A child born on American soil automatically gets U.S. citizenship, unless the child is born to a foreign government official who is in the United States as a recognized diplomat. Children born in certain U.S. territories -- Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guam may also acquire U.S. citizenship. For details, see Title 8 of the U.S. Code, available at www.law.co...

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            ABANOCLA1 year, 3 months ago

            Anyone born with U.S. citizenship retains it for life unless he or she deliberately gives it up -- for example, by filing an oath of renunciation.

            www.law.co... that was the link to Cornell law that was truncated in the above post.http:...">http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08...

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        Frankenmacer1 year, 3 months ago

        WRONG! Read the law some time. Being born here does NOT automatically grant citizenship. At least one parent must be an American citizen already and if that one parent is the father, then he must lawfully acknowledge that the child is his and be providing support for it.

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          ABANOCLA1 year, 3 months ago

          you need to re read it....I bet you didn't even know a man and a woman who are americans can go and say work/live in another country, and have a baby, and that child is not automatically a US citizen believe it or not. My wife is a LEGAL immigrant, I have looked over the laws pretty well, and I couldn't even believe that one, and if you are born here, you get citizenship....there are women who come from europe, 2 months pregnant, get a 3 month visa, intentionally over stay, have the kid, so they can have that US citizen anchor baby so they get in easier and faster.

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            jordan111 year, 3 months ago

            The rights of citizenship by being born here have been a part of the law throughout our history, though never challenged to the SC.

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              zaph221 year, 3 months ago

              Not through the entire history of the US, the 14th amendment wasn't radified until after the Civil War...

              The fourteenth amendment to the Constitution of the United States was proposed to the legislatures of the several States by the Thirty-ninth Congress, on the 13th of June, 1866. It was declared, in a certificate of the Secretary of State dated July 28, 1868 to have been ratified by the legislatures of 28 of the 37 States. The dates of ratification were: Connecticut, June 25, 1866; New Hampshire, July 6, 1866; Tennessee, July 19, 1866;

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                zaph221 year, 3 months ago

                New Jersey, September 11, 1866 (subsequently the legislature rescinded its ratification, and on March 24, 1868, readopted its resolution of rescission over the Governor's veto, and on Nov. 12, 1980, expressed support for the amendment); Oregon, September 19, 1866 (and rescinded its ratification on October 15, 1868); Vermont, October 30, 1866; Ohio, January 4, 1867 (and rescinded its ratification on January 15, 1868); New York, January 10, 1867; Kansas, January 11, 1867; Illinois, January 15, 1867; West Virginia, January 16, 1867; Michigan, January 16, 1867; Minnesota, January 16, 1867; Maine, January 19, 1867; Nevada, January 22, 1867; Indiana, January 23, 1867; Missouri, January 25, 1867; Rhode Island, February 7, 1867; Wisconsin, February 7, 1867; Pennsylvania, February 12, 1867; Massachusetts, March 20, 1867; Nebraska, June 15, 1867; Iowa, March 16, 1868; Arkansas, April 6, 1868; Florida, June 9, 1868;

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                  zaph221 year, 3 months ago

                  North Carolina, July 4, 1868 (after having rejected it on December 14, 1866); Louisiana, July 9, 1868 (after having rejected it on February 6, 1867); South Carolina, July 9, 1868 (after having rejected it on December 20, 1866).

                  Ratification was completed on July 9, 1868.

                  The amendment was subsequently ratified by Alabama, July 13, 1868; Georgia, July 21, 1868 (after having rejected it on November 9, 1866); Virginia, October 8, 1869 (after having rejected it on January 9, 1867); Mississippi, January 17, 1870; Texas, February 18, 1870 (after having rejected it on October 27, 1866); Delaware, February 12, 1901 (after having rejected it on February 8, 1867); Maryland, April 4, 1959 (after having rejected it on March 23, 1867); California, May 6, 1959; Kentucky, March 18, 1976 (after having rejected it on January 8, 1867).

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          zaph221 year, 3 months ago

          Have you ever actually read the 14th Amendment? I think maybe you should, or if you have, it might be time to reread it and really think about that it says... born on US soil, you're a US citizen, unless you're born to a diplomat... anyway, anchor babies wouldn't be a problem if being born in the US didn't make you a US citizen, but the fact that they are US citizens by being born here is the reason people keep talking about breaking up families if a parent is deported. Of course people seem to forget that many people have jobs that take them out of the US for a year, or years to work in other contries, and it doesn't break up their families, they take the kids with them, what a concept huh?

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      PaganGodess1 year, 3 months ago

      If you are going to vote negatively on this why don't you try backing it up with some comments instead of hiding behind your desk!

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  texangelwings1 year, 3 months ago

  How much can our Reps. and government officials trust each other?

  What happens when these people that they are giving amnesty to, decide that they don't like being their new cheap laborers and turn on these reps. and others in the future! (wonder if our reps. saw the rioting in Mexico a few months ago or protesting in our streets right here in the USA?)

  I was always told to be "careful what I wish for!"

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    mdual1 year, 3 months ago

    I'm from California. Yesterday the mayor (THE MAYOR!) of Los Angeles "LED" a march (he LED It!). The march was (here's the pr) to express that all of us have a right to free speech.

    What the hell?! The MAYOR(!) is out it in the streets with illegal aliens leading a march! Oh and he also gave a glorious speech IN SPANISH of course.

    This is what is happening here and it will spread.

    There is no diversity - none - in immigration right now. We are absorbing all the poor and uneducated of latin america. Immigration does need reform. The applications of skilled immigrants from all over the globe should be approved but are ignored.

    I wonder why all the energy to change things is expended once they get here instead of marching through the boulevards of their country for reform so they wouldn't have to leave. I know the energy is there, we've all seen it but it's to change someone else's country not their own. I don't get it.

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      trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

      Make no mistake... it is a war between the US and illegal occupiers. They know it and now, maybe we do too! Our congress and exec. have BOTH been taken over by corporatists and they are traitors. By the exercise of law... may they hang!

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        zaph221 year, 3 months ago

        And this is as much about politics, a way both sides see as a chance to increase their voter base... "Sen. Mel Martinez of Florida, chairman of the Republican National Committee, told state party leaders meeting in Columbia, S.C. Friday that ``if we don't pass this bill, nobody that is in the shadows today will come out of the shadows and be accounted for.' as it is about immigration

        amd more politics, campaign donations, more union members to pay dues to be used for campaigns. And this is about the 08 elections, a way to get votes, and eventually when the illegals become legal they'll be voters, but as to campaigns and campaign donations... ``Without a real path to legalization, the program will exclude millions of workers and thus ensure that America will have two classes of workers, only one of which can exercise workplace rights,'' said John J. Sweeney, the AFL-CIO president.

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          zaph221 year, 3 months ago

          and let us not forget that the "high-tech worker identification program" looks like a backdoor way to get national id cards in all our wallets.

          You might want to take a look at this story, it has a lot of little hints as to all the other things this bill is really about in addition too immigration reform.

          http://politics.netscape.com/story/2007/05/18/k...

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            trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

            City of Industry, CA, all back door, fraudulently obtained H-1B visas, claiming "necessity of bilinguality in Chinese" for the writing of software. The truth is they are working on factory lines, at a third of the rate such jobs paid 10 years ago.

            The employers themselves are usually here illegally too. It is time to clean house. I have informed the INS of these breaches and they tell me they are forbidden from enforcing the law. Well over 100,000 illegal worker and employers just in that area. You tell me, who has more rights? Americans or those here under false pretense?

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            ecotourusa1 year, 3 months ago

            zaph-

            "high-tech worker identification program"

            I'm afraid you're right! I'm outa here...I swear. I'm leaving. anyone else?

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        ecotourusa1 year, 3 months ago

        LORD, HELP US! (this is one of the signs i read during the bush motorcade after being elected the 1st time!)

        I say:

        Lord Help Us all.

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      KingOfTruth1 year, 3 months ago

      mdual:

      I'm from California. Yesterday the mayor (THE MAYOR!) of Los Angeles ...

      Mayor Reconquista?

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      ABANOCLA1 year, 3 months ago

      You have the free right to speech if you are a citizen, if you are here illegaly, you do not have the right to protest in the streets that you deserve such and such a right, you don't even have the right to protest, go home and protest in YOUR country......I always love it when they wave flags of other nations and yet demand rights here...If the countries flag of which you wave is so great....go back there PERIOD.

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        trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

        Waving the flag of another nation in protest to America... in America; that is nerve. That is literally grounds for immediate arrest and deportation, but no we are overly decent to let them speak even when we don't agree.

        Free Speech is a misnomer, in that there is no such thing except when balanced against other rights; ie- you can't incite riot by screaming "fire in a crowded theater".

        These people totally misunderstand our laws and the due consideration that went into them, so they ignore them!

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          nahual1 year, 3 months ago

          Uhm you really have a bone to pick with these latin immigrants eh trnscndr, your comments border on racism and your "patriotic" boo hah hah is a thin veil for your racism,so is your declared "liberal" slant, as if liberals cannot be racist.

          The conditions of poor blacks in the US has little to do with the undocumented. The Welfare State has created an entire class of dependents on Government subsedies as a mean to survival, the poor black have bought into that package and their economic condition cannot be blamed on the undocumented.

          Surely the undocumented are the easy scapegoats to be blamed for the poor economic condition of the lower class blacks in the US however blacks have been the poorest and remained the poorest in the US long before the undocumented began to arrive.

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            zaph221 year, 3 months ago

            racism? who besides YOU mentioned latin, or hispanic, immigrants? The rest of us are ******ed about ILLEGAL immigrants, and I see no one but you mentioning any race or nationality, I assume the others feel as I do, but since I can't be sure, but I do know what I see, and that is no one else mentioning race, nationality, color, or culture, so speaking for myself, and I hope others here that are against this amnesty program, and that damn well is what this bill is, amnesty, myself, and I'm pretty sure all others besides you are upset with illegals, and we don't care what country they came here illegally from, just that they came illegally, so who's racism is showing here?

            Let me add that I have never on any other subject been very likely to agree with trnscndr or any other liberal, I am one of the most conservative people you'll find here, so I have no reason to defend trnscndr, other than you assume he is a racist from your own preconceived ideas of who you think he is...

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              zaph221 year, 3 months ago

              and judging someone based on your preconceived ideas, with no evidence your ideas are true, isn't THAT, which you just did, the root of racism and prejudice?

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      nahual1 year, 3 months ago

      well IF Ronald Reagan and George Bush Senior had not financed, armed and trainned the murderous paramilitary thugs that have murdered thousands in Guatemala and El Salvador perhaps we would not be receiving these people at our border.

      The US Government has sponsored and financed terrorism against the peasants and the lower classes in Guatemala and El Salvador in exhcnage of political submission by the oligarchic governments in these countries. The wave of undocumented immigrants from Central America is a direct result of that of that genocide.

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      nahual1 year, 3 months ago

      The Europeans who migrated to the US were the POOR and the UNEDUCATED in Europe. Probably your grandparents or greatgrand parents, if you are Eurodescendant, were POOR ILLITEATE and UNEDUCATí when they migrated to the US.

      The plaque under the Statue of Liberty reads "give me your poor blah blah blah blah.

      It does not read give me your upper class, college grads with masters in biochemistry...blah blah blah.

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        trnscndr1 year, 3 months ago

        We were "Building" a nation at that time. It is over.

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  blothbelt1 year, 3 months ago

  Trncsndr, as usual you write about the things we care about. To hell with parties, we have to stand together! I will