Administration of Torture; A Documentary Record from Washington to Abu Ghraib and Beyond; »
Posted By tehranchik 1 year ago in NewsAdministration of Torture is the most detailed account thus far of what took place in America's overseas detention centers, including a narrative essay in which Jameel Jaffer and Amrit Singh draw the connection between the policies adopted by senior civilian and military officials and the torture and abuse that took place on the ground.
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tehranchik
Well, I'm from and live in the Pacific Northwest. I did live in the middle east during the late 70's and early 80 ...
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sinophil491 year ago
I have not read this book and I probably will not buy it. It seems to be a more organized and coherent telling of the decision to use, utilization of, the cover up of and the aftermath of torture by US troops than just the random internet news reports or occasional newsprint reports. Just perusing the sample memos was sickening.
I kept wondering if every time the words detainee, Iraqi, or Afghanistan were substituted by the words American soldier, how would our public react?
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cushi1 year ago
You are not dealing with the subject matter. This information is about self examination! We have always touted ourselves as a humane society, even in times of war. We have said we do NOT believe in torture, cruel and unusual punishment, and that we would abide by the rules of the Geneva Convention in regard to treatment of prisoners of war. Further, this administration has reiterated to the American people that no torture of prisoners was ordered, sanctioned, or acceptable, and that the "isolated" incidents like those at Abu Graib were the result of overzealous soldiers not obeying orders. Bush himself assured that those guilty of gross mistreatment of the prisoners would be punished. ALL OF THOSE ASSERTIONS WERE LIES!! We cannot pretend these things are not true or critically important, and we MUST address the issue and examine ourselves. Holy scriptures dictate it, moral consciousness dictates it, and just plain common decency dictates it!
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tiredofwhiners1 year ago
"we have always touted ourselves as a humane society": Not according to a lot of our enemies. That's who we need to impress that we're NOT humane and will fix their butts if we catch them. Why not be what they accuse us of being? Meanwhile the average Gitmo prisoner has their 3 meals, reads their Koran given to them by us, watches TV, throws feces at the guards and complains about everything.
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sinophil491 year ago
cushi - You obviously do not know Bush that well. A quick Google examination of a couple of articles revealed the following:
1) A memo from John Yoo & Bobert Delahanty of the DOJ's Office of Legal counsel rejects the applicability of the Geneva conventions to al Qaeda and the Taliban for the following reasons
a) Afghanistan is a failed state and the Taliban was not the government
b) Taliban is intertwined w/ al Qaeda. Therefore, Taliban members are also terrorists
c) The president has the authority to suspend or renege on treaties, esp w/ Afghanistan
d) Customary international law does not bind the president nor restrict the actions of our military because of his constitutional powers
2) A Rumsfeld memo of 1/19/02 ordered the Joint Chiefs of Staff to inform combat commanders that AQ & Taliban individuals are NOT entitled to POW status. It also gave commanders permission to "depart from Geneva Convention provisions if they deem it appropriate and a...
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tiredofwhiners1 year ago
Re: "substituted": To you there's no difference between an American soldier and an anti-American Muslim Jihadist terrorist.
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sinophil491 year ago
tiredofwhiners - What nonsense are you talking about? I am not equating American soldiers w/ terrorist.
I am merely asking what would the public feel if an American soldier were on the receiving end of the torture that Bush's administration ordered.
So what would YOU feel if an American soldier received the same treatment that the prisoners received at Abu Ghraib?
Don't give me the argument that the terrorist did worse acts. Of course they did.
The point is that we are supposed to be the ethical party. We are supposed to be the moral leader of the world. Bush is trumpeting the glories of Democracy and the "American Way."
How we can claim the moral high ground if we torture like any other 3rd world petty dictator?
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cahothoney1 year ago
I am sorry but i won't read it. I really don't care about that kinda crap unless it's about our troops, or our citizen's. I don't back a president or a party per say, but I do back america...period. i can't stand it when people bad mouth who ever is the president since it is not their fault the country is in a mess, it's been messed up for a long time, so it won't be fixed over night.
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thaw1 year ago
so, torture is ok, as long as it's not "your" kind of people?
as long as the american name is on it, good or bad, you will support it?
you just better hope that someday, they don't decide "you" need a treatment. but, it's not their fault, because the system has been messed up a long time.
it won't be fixed at all, if nobody tries.
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tiredofwhiners1 year ago
Yep, you got it. I amend that to include the white American Muslim caught in Afghanistan as needing torture too.
It's good, not bad. Tit for tat re: terrorist and Muslim terrorists' torture on Westerners.
It won't happen as long as we win and keep em at bay.
Let the Muslim-Arab-Islamo-fascist pigs fix their own first.
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cushi1 year ago
News flash! America is not the entire world. It is only a small part of it. Your attitude is infantile and dangerous because we are moving steadily and unavoidably moving toward a global society. That means that we must learn to respect and get along with our neighbors, or suffer dire consequences! Even if you don't believe in God or the teachings of the Bible, you are surely familiar with the sage advice of the "golden rule": do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That should be simple enough for even you to understand. For America, the land of the free and the home of the brave, to stoop to the level of bullies and common criminals is absolutely WRONG and UNACCEPTABLE.
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sinophil491 year ago
cahothoney - Don't you want to make America better any way you can? Don't you want to make America morally and ethically pure? Don't you want the entire world to look up to and admire all our ideas and principles? Would you tolerate anyone that damages our reputation and moral standing? Would you allow anyone to put his own agenda and benefit above that of the entire country's?
That is why we have to stop torture by our forces. That is why we have to put America's real interests above any individual's desires, even Bush.
Conservatives demanded moral purity from Clinton. That is right and just to do so. We expect more from our leaders.
Would you not demand the same moral purity from Bush? Especially if it also damages American reputation in the eyes of the world.
I invite you to join us to demand ethical and moral behavior from Bush, much as you demanded that from Clinton.
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tiredofwhiners1 year ago
Didn't read it. Just another Bush bashing lib piece. Do you seriously think the majority of Americans give a whit about detention camps in a war? (except for our own being detained). Where were all the bleeding hearts when the Japanese, Germans and Italians were put into camps in WWII? How about Korea, Vietnam? What was going on there? Tehranchik sounds like a woman from Iran (Teheran). Go back there, you'll love it vs. America. Fight for your people over there who really need help.
Utter trash!!!
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tiredofwhiners1 year ago
Look at the good side. Our "torture", if the word gets out to them, will inhibit the terrorists, maybe just a little. Especially if we let it be known they will be smeared with pig fat and bacon forced down their throats if they don't give the correct information. As far as I'm concerned any torture we dish out is too good for them.
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sinophil491 year ago
TOW - I'm afraid you do not understand world politics or fanaticism. Now that "they" know we torture our prisoners, that is the equivalent of giving "them" license to torture American prisoners in their grasp.
Of course, they have been torturing all along, but now we can not claim the moral high ground. Now we can not act indignant that our boys are being tortured. Bush has sunk our moral standing down to theirs
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tiredofwhiners1 year ago
Good thing we have top rated TV and radio political analysts Limbaugh, Beck, Savage, Hannity,And CNN's Dobson? (forgot his name)to counter the rubbish put out by the anti-American liberal media. I highly recommend them to all you misguided America haters.
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tiredofwhiners1 year ago
I remember reading about the Japanese tortures of WWII. Bamboo splints pounded up fingernails, cigarettes put out in a GI's ear. Hanging them by their feet or hands. Then Stalin's sending people to concentration camps to work until they die with inadequate food. Sadaam's son feeding anyone he didn't like to his pet lions. The medieval "rack" torture. And others. Now that's torture.
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mycountry1 year ago
In the early 90's, there was Desert Storm. We whipped Hussein in a conventional war in less that 100 days. Being good sports and a democratic country we accepted the cease fire instead of nailing Hussein. Over the next 12 years, Hussein stone-walled UN inspectors while driving truckoads of materials right past them. Not very sportsman-like. He also figured out you can't beat us in a conventional war, so he employed, sanctioned, bankrolled, encouraged, however you want to put it, some not so friendly people to repay our consideration with the 9/11 attacks. I don't he was the only one, but he was the most verbal. Now he's dead,something that could have been accomplished the first time. Now our enemy is strapping bombs to kids and blowing up schools, killing their OWN people! Irag could be turned into a sheet of glass and it still wouldn't make up for the loss of 1 American life. We use torture as a last resort to save lives, not as a form of entertainment, unlike our enemy.
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gamahuche1 year ago
All I can say after reading the above comments is God Help America.
Cushi and Thaw are the only recognisable members of the human species.
The rest of you should get back to the jungle with the rest of the beasts.
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bumbaklotartattack1 year ago
Poor Americans, how does it feel to live in a lie? You think you're so free, but you have to pay taxes on things you already paid for (mortgage, car registration, license, driver id), and not one dime goes back to you as reported in the grace commission report sponsored by reagan. You think you're so free, but your government openly wage wars based on lies. You think you're so free, but Congress and the WH have a 20% approval poll. You think you're free, but your electoral system kicks out negative votes and has proprietary software that no one can examine. You think you're free, but your government openly kills your own people with false flag operations such as pearl harbor, 911, mandatory vaccination programs, ruby ridge, waco, uss liberty, etc. And you call yourselves christians while you go to church on the first day of the week rather than the sabbath....
Ah, freedom is slavery, 2 plus 2 equals 5.
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NoWayMan1 year ago
once we condone torture, all our talk of our place on the moral high ground loses all of its legitamacy and becomes nothing more than hot air. and changing the defintion of torture so we can torture by another name isn't fooling anyone. you're simply lying to yourself if you think it is.
and one of the main points this book lays out is this:
torture doesn't work.
in all the studies done by all the intel agencies (the FBI studies are highlighted in the book) they all say we get better information when we treat prisoners (or enemy combatants or whatever you want to call them) humanely. when we torture our enemies, all it does is reinforce the reasons why they hate us.
and I find it alarming that we, as americans, are even having a discussion about if and when we should torture.
we're simply better than that.
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