Clinton Won the Pennsylvania Primary, but Lost the War for the Nomination »
Posted by: scott4261 4 months, 2 weeks ago155 Comments Report this Story
The Pennsylvania Primary was Hillary Clinton's last chance to deliver a game changing blow to Obama's campaign for the nomination. She failed to deliver. Pennsylvania provided her with her final real opportunity to knock the wheels off the Obama campaign. She needed a crushing victory of 18% to 25% to have any real chance of altering the math...
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Comments So Far: 155
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OnionHeadComment removed: User banned.
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JoseMadre4 months, 2 weeks ago
She doesn't need to alter the rules. Despite using terms that suggest otherwise, there is no such thing as a truly "pledged" delegate in the DNC. Any delegate can vote for any candidate. What Hillary is trying to do is make the case that while Obama MIGHT win, she WILL win. If the polling numbers are to be believed in states like Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, New Jersey, and even New York, then she is correct. Obama national % splits in such a way that he might pick off New Mexico, Nevada, and Colorado from the GOP, but he will lose Michigan, New Jersey, and possibly Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and (longshot) New York. He is not at all competitive in Florida.
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aniokly4 months, 2 weeks ago
The Superdelegates, and Dean, Pelosi, and Reid can give the nomination to Obama, but he will have no credibility. Everyone will know he didn't earn it any more then Hillary did. She is right about the "big states." He is unelectable for the same reason Kerry, and Gore were unelectable. The Democrats cannot steal enough votes to elect a 100% Liberal candidate
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Leemck024 months, 2 weeks ago
Obama has huge turn out. He is more electable by the math; if not by the talking heads - they miss more projections than they get correct. Remember they thought this was a slam dunk for Hillary. His choice not to blast on a Fellow Dem is his best choice. Soon as he spanks her, the media will make an even larger deal than the word "Bitter". He can't hit the white woman; remember OJ. He can hit the white man. McCain is in trouble. I respect McCain, let me say, he has shown to be more Presidential than the former First Lady.
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scott42614 months, 2 weeks ago
The Democrats won't have to steal the election. They have plenty of independents (myself included) to join them. We just need to show up in the large numbers we've demonstrated throughout the primaries.
Need I remind you that the Republicans stole the last two elections?
Should Barack Obama be elected (and I believe that he will be), I hope Congress presents him with election reform that will take private companies out of the business of processing votes and insures an accurate vote count in each election.
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BTW, Dean, Pelosi, and Reid ARE superdelegates...so to name them again is redundant.
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not2needy4 months, 2 weeks ago
Nicely broken down and analyzed almost to a T!
FTA:
And of course, Obama will not go into the General Election burdened by the towering Clinton negatives that her own negative campaign strategy increases daily.
Hillary would have had a much better chance had she taken Obama seriously from the get go, and hadn't chosen to use dirty politics as her guideline for victory!
This should be a lesson learned for ALL future elections, not just presidential, the country is tired of dirty politics and dirty politicians.
GO OBAMA!
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tanglang4 months, 2 weeks ago
Well Scott you should look at the numbers if you include Florida. Or have the dems decided that they do not have a say this year? Once you include them Hillary is ahead in both the pop vote and the electoral delegates. Take a look and let me know what you think.
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AlphaGnosisComment removed: User banned.22 Replies
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Grrr4 months, 2 weeks ago
FL and MI decided that they would not have a say this year when they scheduled their primaries.
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lum-chate4 months, 2 weeks ago
Florida & Michigan will matter believe me but they shouldn't have. If the Democratic rules weren't so idiotic Clinton would have already wrapped up the nomination.
Listen, she wins Pennsylvania a state with about 11,000,000 people and only benefits by 10 votes & Obama because it was a caucus state where to Moveon.orger fanaitics have undo influence wins Kansas with 2,000,000 people gets a 20 for that, thats not democracy. Beyond that if the Democratic rules were similar to the Republican rules with winner takes all again she would have rapped up the nomination.
These are facts, there are no RESPONSIBLE contradictions to. But I'm sure the Obama crybabies will try!
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NoWayMan4 months, 2 weeks ago
hillary and obama both knew the rules going in. so hillary has no ground to stand on in trying to change the rules after the fact.
florida and michigan both knew the consequences if they chose to disobey party rules.
obama wasn't even on the ballot in michigan, so the numbers you're trying to push are irrelevant at this point.
and btw tang, you never answered my question:
do you think Obama is a bigot and/or a terrorist?
quit being a wuss and answer the question.
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tanglang4 months, 2 weeks ago
"obama wasn't even on the ballot in michigan, so the numbers you're trying to push are irrelevant at this point."
Notice I never aid Michigan.
I answered your question about three times now. Here is a whole thread answering your question.
http://politics.propeller.com/story/2008/04/23/...
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SpareChange4 months, 2 weeks ago
tanglang
you can't count florida because obama wasn't on the ballot and hillary signed a contract saying that she wouldn't campaign...
If the DNC had decided to pay for a revote, then count all the votes with both candidates on teh ballot
Florida and Michigan ignored the rules and then hillary broke her word and that's how we got where we are...wish we could let those people vote again, but the DNC and the state dem parties decided not to pay
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MRCOFFEECAKE4 months, 2 weeks ago
Are those the same reliable polls that had Howard Dean beating everybody in January 2004??
The "numbers" would be different if both candidates campaigned at full steam, as opposed to the pre-determined non-relevancy of the results, right??
After all, winning the Grapefruit League doesn't count if it is called an "exhibition" before you play, does it?
Are those the same polls that had even those who did vote admittedly lying to throw off exit pollers..
So, someone is supposed to become prepared for a loss even before the effort because of those old reliable "numbers"???
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Leemck024 months, 2 weeks ago
Tang, why would the Democratic party say they weren't going to count Florida, then count just Hillary's votes? She will never get that free ride. If she does run a real race in Florida, she will lose. She will not get a cross over vote from the conservatives there.
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Radiofreeeuropa4 months, 2 weeks ago
We all know what big concerns you have for Democratic candidates LOL! You can not count votes where the DNC said the primary was not legitimate and whose votes would not count.
That would be like allowing 1 player in a card game to use cards hidden up their sleeves.
Frankly they were told if their names appeared on those ballots in Michigan, they would not be allowed on the ballots in New Hampshire. Technically Hillary should not have even been on the ballot in NH. This situation with both states was handled badly by the states as well as the DNC who does in fact make the rules. Though I feel badly for voters in those states, their state level party leaders created the problem and refused to negotiate any solutions.
This botched power play in which only one name was on the ballot would be a pathetic sham to claim as the excuse to be the party's candidate. It won't fly.
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Mdiar4 months, 2 weeks ago
Hillary's popular vote lead is minute, including every state its about 12,000 (or .04% of the vote). As Obama wasn't even on the Michigan ballot and 40% said "Uncommitted" I'd say its not really unfair to say Obama would be ahead of Clinton if he'd appeared on the ballot there. Not to mention the last polls I saw (outdated, honestly) had Obama winning NC by a fairly large margin and winning Indiana by a little bit as well. Oh, for the popular vote difference:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/pr...
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ladylou44 months, 2 weeks ago
"Obama's ability to mobilize new young and African American voters in the general election is indisputably greater than Clinton's."
Undoubtedly, I feel that the above quote is Obama's strength. As the August convention in Denver and the November election draw near, I firmly believe the young generation of voters will have their say. Soon, I think Hillary will witness this phenomena and for the sake of seeing Democratic platforms shine, she will withdraw and lend her support. (Maybe Chelsea, her young, educated, talented daughter will end up as her strongest advisor.)
In my opinion, the active participation in the recent primaries is proof that our democratic government structures are healthy!
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newbie04204 months, 2 weeks ago
"Obama's ability to mobilize new young and African American voters in the general election is indisputably greater than Clinton's."
What you're failing to realize is that the vast majority of those voters are in states that tend to be democratic anyway.
It's states like Ohio and Pennsylvania that you need to win in order to win the Presidency, which Obama has no chance of against McCain.
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Radiofreeeuropa4 months, 2 weeks ago
If Obama is the Candidate which despite the new onslaught of media shills, the Hillary camp, and state republican attacks, is statistically very likely, conventional wisdom about what states McCain can rely on goes out the window. Even the pundits say this is so. Numerous states that have voted republican in the past are no longer a given and are in play. Here in N.J., for instance though Hillary won, Obama got about half the votes. Do you think the Clinton voters will really rally round a 3rd Bush term??? It is a completely bogus argument.
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SwampFox-82nd4 months, 2 weeks ago
LadyLou, I truly like your style! I've not seen so many Democrats joining to overthrow those right-wingers back to hell, from wince they crawled. My only hope is that every American gets their patriotic ass off of the swamp-floor and into the real world. Anyone with a friggin' brain knows what has happened these past seven-years. Even the Repugs know something stinks in the house they created. You can see that easily in their eyes. They and they alone will have to bear what Bush wrought into this world.
The Truth WILL be known by every American, this I can promise you. The truth needs to be in politics, not greed.
We voted those carpetbaggers in, now it's time to throw them the hell out of our House; the house that George Washington built. Our HOUSE, not the neocons. We owe that to the world -- we allowed those scum into our sacred home, time to clean house. Starting with Bush and Cheney!
Screw you and your flag, legs. Airborne, all the way! AA! That means All American!
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Radiofreeeuropa4 months, 2 weeks ago
SwampFox, It's great to see you round the threads! You are a true patriot my friend!!!!
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Albmore4 months, 2 weeks ago
Yes but you can add the Clintons and their lobby backers to that list.
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Radiofreeeuropa4 months, 2 weeks ago
Newbie, you would rather have someone who vows and demonstrates that they will continue the lobby run ways of the past, than accept the possibility that a politician may be the real deal and mean what he says. You have no proof he is lieing, nor do we have proof that he is not. I know exactly what we will get with the other 2 known brands. I'll take my chances on a decent human being.
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lum-chate4 months, 2 weeks ago
Albie
Soory to rain on your parade but please realize that
for the next 50 yrs. their will be plenty of Pied Pipers trying to clear Hamlin from the rats. They won't you should be happy this country is less corrupt than most. Utopian thinkers like you will always end up disallusioned and sad.
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